Terms of Service; Didn't Read • Hacker News Board

Re: Terms of Service; Didn't Read

#41

Post by cmdrfred » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 5:56 PM UTC

dctoedt wrote: post #31

Retric wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is however a reasonable chance the person clicking I agree is not the end user. Setup a Facebook account for your grandparents who never click agree. Are they then bound by the TOS? In the end TOS are generally weakly enforceable. If facebook adds a 10,000$ annual fee in the fine print and there unlikely to be able to collect.

> Setup a Facebook account for your grandparents who never click agree. Are they then bound by the TOS? My guess is that a court would ask: Can you reasonably be said to be the "agent" [1] for your grandparents --- that is, would a reasonable person, taking an objective look at the facts, conclude that your grandparents had authorized you to make binding agreements on their behalf --- for the kinds of transactions sp…

I'll use logmein or vnc on anyones machine and of my own accord click "I agree" for them for a small fee.

Re: Terms of Service; Didn't Read

#42

Post by darkstar999 » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 6:02 PM UTC

This inspired me to look for HN's ToS. As far as I can find, it is "When you click on a link, our server will send you the corresponding page."

http://www.ycombinator.com/legal/

Really? That's it?

Re: Terms of Service; Didn't Read

#43

Post by DanBC » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 6:06 PM UTC

darkstar999 wrote: post #42

This inspired me to look for HN's ToS. As far as I can find, it is "When you click on a link, our server will send you the corresponding page." http://www.ycombinator.com/legal/ Really? That's it?

What more do you want? Licensing for the content of the post? ToS for webscraping? Privacy policy?

Re: Terms of Service; Didn't Read

#44

Post by dang » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 6:09 PM UTC

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5888393

Re: Terms of Service; Didn't Read

#45

Post by Zikes » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 6:09 PM UTC

snlacks wrote: post #25

rev_bird wrote: post #17

One of my favorite ToS items is from LinkedIn: You aren't allowed to "deep-link to our sites for any purpose, (i.e. creating or posting a link to a LinkedIn web page other than LinkedIn’s home page)".[1] The act of linking to a publicly available website is against that website's terms. [1] https://www.linkedin.com/legal/user-agreement

What if they find out that you just linked to a "deep-link?" Seriously though, is it made unenforceable when the usage by both parties (linkedin and users) actually encourage this? (Share this on facebook!) It sounds like a "catch-all" "don't like you" clause.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/07/weevs-case-flawed-begi...

At least one person has been imprisoned for exactly that.

Re: Terms of Service; Didn't Read

#46

Post by chc » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 6:32 PM UTC

subb wrote: post #36

snlacks wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they find out that you just linked to a "deep-link?" Seriously though, is it made unenforceable when the usage by both parties (linkedin and users) actually encourage this? (Share this on facebook!) It sounds like a "catch-all" "don't like you" clause.

My guess is it's to prevent "copycat" websites like those for stackoverflow.

What does deep linking have to do with copying a site's content?

Re: Terms of Service; Didn't Read

#47

Post by drdaeman » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 7:14 PM UTC

dctoedt wrote: post #31

Retric wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is however a reasonable chance the person clicking I agree is not the end user. Setup a Facebook account for your grandparents who never click agree. Are they then bound by the TOS? In the end TOS are generally weakly enforceable. If facebook adds a 10,000$ annual fee in the fine print and there unlikely to be able to collect.

> Setup a Facebook account for your grandparents who never click agree. Are they then bound by the TOS? My guess is that a court would ask: Can you reasonably be said to be the "agent" [1] for your grandparents --- that is, would a reasonable person, taking an objective look at the facts, conclude that your grandparents had authorized you to make binding agreements on their behalf --- for the kinds of transactions sp…

I had read, someone had made their parrot click the confirmation button. Or maybe it was a cat. I don't really remember the details.

Re: Terms of Service; Didn't Read

#48

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 7:16 PM UTC

cmdrfred wrote: post #41

dctoedt wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Setup a Facebook account for your grandparents who never click agree. Are they then bound by the TOS? My guess is that a court would ask: Can you reasonably be said to be the "agent" [1] for your grandparents --- that is, would a reasonable person, taking an objective look at the facts, conclude that your grandparents had authorized you to make binding agreements on their behalf --- for the kinds of transactions sp…

I'll use logmein or vnc on anyones machine and of my own accord click "I agree" for them for a small fee.

[deleted]

Re: Terms of Service; Didn't Read

#49

Post by yourad_io » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 7:16 PM UTC

cmdrfred wrote: post #41

dctoedt wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Setup a Facebook account for your grandparents who never click agree. Are they then bound by the TOS? My guess is that a court would ask: Can you reasonably be said to be the "agent" [1] for your grandparents --- that is, would a reasonable person, taking an objective look at the facts, conclude that your grandparents had authorized you to make binding agreements on their behalf --- for the kinds of transactions sp…

I'll use logmein or vnc on anyones machine and of my own accord click "I agree" for them for a small fee.

And under what terms do you provide that service? :)

Re: Terms of Service; Didn't Read

#50

Post by nanidin » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 7:33 PM UTC

dctoedt wrote: post #12

captainmuon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if you can click on "I agree", and lie . Then you wouldn't be bound by the terms, because you didn't consent to them, but your wrongdoing would have been to access the service without permission. It's a bit like violating the GPL: If you modify a GPL program and distribute it without source, you violate the license between you and the person you obtained the program from. But one could also argue you "stole"…

> I wonder if you can click on "I agree", and lie. Then you wouldn't be bound by the terms, because you didn't consent to them .... It doesn't work that way --- courts look to objective manifestations of consent, not subjective intentions. In kids' terms: Crossing your fingers behind your back doesn't get you off the hook.

Most companies maintain pretty extensive analytics data - would a court consider whether or not a given user ever even actually looked at the ToS as some kind of objective proof that they couldn't have possibly agreed with it? Or say the user visited the ToS page, but only for 30 seconds - that is, not long enough that reading the entire ToS is within the realm of human possibility?