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Should I sign this agreement?

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Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#41

Post by arethuza »

MCRed wrote: post #25

Assuming your description is accurate, you should have had %95-%98 of the equity of that startup, and all ownership of the code. She was defrauding you (says she's taking class, so you enroll, turns out it was a lie, says she'll meet with you, doesn't show up, claims she should get %100 despite doing less than %5 of the work, etc.) and gas lighting you attempting to emotionally manipulate you into thinking you were t…

Actually, according to the rather useful sociopath/clueless/loser categorization it's the OP who is "clueless":

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o...

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#42

Post by huherto »

damoncali wrote: post #37
MCRed wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engineers can learn business. There's very little that is difficult in business. Have yet to meet a business guy who could learn software development.

That's an unfortunate attitude that I would encourage you to drop. Any reasonably sharp, motivated person can learn anything. Am I a business guy who learned to code? An engineer who learned business? I have degrees in both and have taken jobs in both fields. Or am I just someone who took an interest in these things and learned as much as I could about both of them?

Anyone could. But it takes a long time. Most people won't do it.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#43

Post by ryandrake »

geographomics wrote: post #17
Avalaxy wrote: post #11

> I drafted up an agreement for both of us to sign,... and gave her the code for free. You did WHAT?!

I was similarly appalled by this - but reflecting on it further, it was probably the easiest way out. Sounds like at that point, he just wanted rid of the whole project.

I would have just deleted the code and moved on with my life. Far simpler.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#44

Post by ehurrell »

geographomics wrote: post #17
Avalaxy wrote: post #11

> I drafted up an agreement for both of us to sign,... and gave her the code for free. You did WHAT?!

I was similarly appalled by this - but reflecting on it further, it was probably the easiest way out. Sounds like at that point, he just wanted rid of the whole project.

I can completely understand wanting to be rid of something like this, if only for the author's mental health.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#45

Post by pjc50 »

The "it would be illegal to pay you" is easily circumvented: start a company of your own (slightly more expensive than a domain name, but not much), have her pay the company, do not pay yourself from the company until you have completed your course.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#46

Post by ehurrell »

arethuza wrote: post #22
FleursDuMal wrote: post #19

It's generally a bit taboo to directly address dominance in social interactions, but you were manipulated into doing and then handing over work for nothing in return. You were successfully made to believe you would be the bad guy for walking away when nothing could have been farther from the truth. You worked, for nothing, on a project which belonged wholly to someone else, and they didn't even bother to turn up for…

"could be a cheap lesson" Not to mention the fact they wrote it up and it is now popular on HN means that other people might learn from this and avoid getting into the same mess. [I once did a pile of work on a proposal for a large project for a customer who turned out to be using it as part of his MBA... I probably would have noticed something was funny but he was introduced to us by Sun!]

HN has showed me that this sort of thing is more common than I expected. Any and all experiences shared help people know what to look for.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#47

Post by jrs99 »

FleursDuMal wrote: post #19

It's generally a bit taboo to directly address dominance in social interactions, but you were manipulated into doing and then handing over work for nothing in return. You were successfully made to believe you would be the bad guy for walking away when nothing could have been farther from the truth. You worked, for nothing, on a project which belonged wholly to someone else, and they didn't even bother to turn up for…

the flip side is:

why would you destroy this relationship if you're the mba student. You have to realize there is a benefit to keeping the original engineer on board. There's probably a benefit to having a partner that can prototype any stupid idea you come up with.

If this were me, i'd be jamming 50% of this business down the coder's throat.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#48

Post by damoncali »

jrs99 wrote: post #47
FleursDuMal wrote: post #19

It's generally a bit taboo to directly address dominance in social interactions, but you were manipulated into doing and then handing over work for nothing in return. You were successfully made to believe you would be the bad guy for walking away when nothing could have been farther from the truth. You worked, for nothing, on a project which belonged wholly to someone else, and they didn't even bother to turn up for…

the flip side is: why would you destroy this relationship if you're the mba student. You have to realize there is a benefit to keeping the original engineer on board. There's probably a benefit to having a partner that can prototype any stupid idea you come up with. If this were me, i'd be jamming 50% of this business down the coder's throat.

It's never good to burn bridges, but giving someone 50% as they walk off to take another job doesn't seem all that smart or equitable.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#49

Post by gamblor956 »

From a purely legal perspective, such an agreement probably would not have been enforceable.

The coder would be giving up the right to his code, and taking on the burden of non-disclosure, in exchange for...nothing. Basic contract law (in the U.S.) requires that both parties receive adequate consideration (essentially, payment) for the bargain they are making. Unpaid student internships are generally not considered to be valid consideration because it is illegal to have interns perform the primary business activities without some sort of compensation (monetary, or in the form of academic units).

It's surprising that it didn't come up in the previous HN discussion but it appears that none of HN's usual legal commentators dropped in.

Re: Should I sign this agreement?

#50

Post by throwaway12834 »

As someone who knows both parties involved, here's a little context from the other side.

While the MBA student was not in the class, she was drafting and writing all of the classwork (with the exception of the project) for this class that she was not enrolled in. Our school uses a bidding system that played a factor in her ability to enroll. Strings had to be pulled to manage to get the developer into the class (a bureaucratic headache because of cross-registration).

From her perspective, she had an implicit agreement that helping the developer get into the course and then completing the vast majority of the coursework was her end of the bargain. This should've been made more explicit between them, but the point is that the work done was not one-sided.

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