How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers • Hacker News Board

Re: How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers

#41

Post by rtpg » Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 3:27 AM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #15

panabee wrote: post #2

One reason Apple Pay matters for developers and startups is it erodes a key advantage of leaders and incumbents. By dramatically reducing the friction around account creation and payments, Apple Pay makes it much, much easier for consumers to try new services. Ride sharing services, for example, could benefit from this. Of course, it will take a while for the effects to be felt, but increased competition in commerce…

It really doesn't do this. Apple Pay is not the solution to moving money between parties who aren't registered merchants, with the relevant banking setup. Anyone can be become a merchant with a PayPass reader today. Apple Pay is not changing that, nor can it since that sector is entirely dependent on local commerce/finance laws and payment processor anti-fraud costs.

Having first-class OS support for the payment method (and the fact that a huge amount of people have been forced to register a credit card through iTunes at one point or another) means that the consumer barrier to entry is super low.

Re: How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers

#42

Post by placeybordeaux » Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 3:51 AM UTC

cdnsteve wrote: post #32

Maybe it's just me but I'm not drinking the kool aid about Apple Pay in today's announcement. Aside, I really hated the fact that to watch the event you had to use a Safari browser, same with watching Swift tutorial videos on their website, using latest Chrome on a Mac... Maybe I'm old school but I'm actually finding that payment options are getting worse, not better. This is another example of further fragmentation.…

Having a credit card stolen is a lot easier to deal with then having cash stolen. For that I am thankful.

Re: How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers

#43

Post by dogecoinbase » Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 3:52 AM UTC

serve_yay wrote: post #36

cdnsteve wrote: post #32

Maybe it's just me but I'm not drinking the kool aid about Apple Pay in today's announcement. Aside, I really hated the fact that to watch the event you had to use a Safari browser, same with watching Swift tutorial videos on their website, using latest Chrome on a Mac... Maybe I'm old school but I'm actually finding that payment options are getting worse, not better. This is another example of further fragmentation.…

> Maybe it's just me but I'm not drinking the kool aid about Apple Pay in today's announcement. What does this actually mean?

Nothing, it's gibberish. Or, rather, a signal you can use to realize that the person who wrote it can't think critically and most likely doesn't have anything useful to say.

Re: How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers

#44

Post by DrewAllyn » Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 3:59 AM UTC

cdnsteve wrote: post #32

Maybe it's just me but I'm not drinking the kool aid about Apple Pay in today's announcement. Aside, I really hated the fact that to watch the event you had to use a Safari browser, same with watching Swift tutorial videos on their website, using latest Chrome on a Mac... Maybe I'm old school but I'm actually finding that payment options are getting worse, not better. This is another example of further fragmentation.…

I'm a Canadian who is temporarily in the US, and it seems so backwards to me. A signature? You mean writing on a piece of paper that probably never gets looks at allows someone to take money out of my bank account? Chip+Pin at least has a semblance of technical security.

And cash? Don't get me started. Cash can be physically lost. Cash can be stolen. When you pay with cash, you get given coins as well as the thing you are buying. Coins suck. To me, cash makes less and less sense these days. In Canada, I never carry any. In California there are enough cash only places (in 2014!) that I have some at most times.

I will probably not know it when I see it, but I look forward to the last day I touch cash.

Re: How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers

#45

Post by stephenr » Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 4:01 AM UTC

natrius wrote: post #12

induscreep wrote: post #9

How does Apple pay differ from Google's ecosystem and whatever it provides? There, the smartphone app (Google Wallet vs passbook) and the hardware is not made by the same people (Samsung vs Apple) - so does this pose any problems?

Apple Pay gets a token from your card issuer and uses that to pay. Google Wallet pays with their own card and charges your card the same amount. Only difference I see is that Google knows about every transaction you make. Apple doesn't.

Wow that's creepy and yet completely unsurprising from google..

Re: How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers

#46

Post by jedmeyers » Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 4:13 AM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #40

21echoes wrote: post #26

> Apple Pay marks the first time a popular operating system is making payments a platform service for real-world, non-digital-good transactions, in a broad, inclusive manner that is compatible with the mainstream payments processing industry I'm sorry... what? How is this different from Google making Google Wallet back in 2011? They both use the same tech (PayPass, an industry standard), and both are made by an OS co…

I'm always suprised at how Apple and co. can so bluntly deny the existence of prior art for what they do. Even if they do it better, that doesn't mean they're the first.

They never say they are first. They say they are "first popular".

Re: How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers

#47

Post by 21echoes » Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 4:23 AM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #35

21echoes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I totally agree that Google Wallet was basically a business failure. I'd also say that the only thing that may stop Apple Pay from being a business failure is that it's Apple doing it this time (even tho, frankly, their UI looks significantly worse than Google Wallet, and has far less functionality, and Google Wallet is no longer impeded by the carriers)... But that's not what the article section i quoted was t…

I've never used Google wallet- but how could Apple's UI be worse? All you do is tap your device. How did Google Wallet work?

that's the payment experience, sure, but there's all those moments before and after your payment. say, adding a card, managing which cards you want to use at which locations, etc. there was plenty of footage in the live stream this morning, or stills here: http://www.apple.com/apple-pay/

but the bigger point: you're quibbling over the first of three points i made in an aside (the other two being that google wallet has way more features, and that google wallet is now not blocked from being on Verizon et al). The larger point is that the article saying that this is the first OS to have a payments solution is... very strange.

Re: How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers

#48

Post by jvm » Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 4:24 AM UTC

jedmeyers wrote: post #46

rtpg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always suprised at how Apple and co. can so bluntly deny the existence of prior art for what they do. Even if they do it better, that doesn't mean they're the first.

They never say they are first. They say they are "first popular".

They say "First popular operating system."

Not even Steve Cook has a reality distortion field strong enough to pull that one off.

Re: How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers

#49

Post by clarky07 » Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 4:33 AM UTC

cdnsteve wrote: post #32

Maybe it's just me but I'm not drinking the kool aid about Apple Pay in today's announcement. Aside, I really hated the fact that to watch the event you had to use a Safari browser, same with watching Swift tutorial videos on their website, using latest Chrome on a Mac... Maybe I'm old school but I'm actually finding that payment options are getting worse, not better. This is another example of further fragmentation.…

really, cash? cash sucks in so many ways. it can get lost, it can get stolen, it takes up more room, it takes longer to pay with, you have to get coins back as change. should i go on? i thought the apple pay stuff was the best part about today's event. if they can get a high percentage of merchants to accept it it will noticeably improve my life. small things like saving time checking out will make me happy therefore improving my overall quality of life.

Re: How Apple Pay works and why it matters for developers

#50

Post by tallowen » Wed, Sep 10, 2014, 4:35 AM UTC

DrewAllyn wrote: post #44

cdnsteve wrote: post #32

Maybe it's just me but I'm not drinking the kool aid about Apple Pay in today's announcement. Aside, I really hated the fact that to watch the event you had to use a Safari browser, same with watching Swift tutorial videos on their website, using latest Chrome on a Mac... Maybe I'm old school but I'm actually finding that payment options are getting worse, not better. This is another example of further fragmentation.…

I'm a Canadian who is temporarily in the US, and it seems so backwards to me. A signature? You mean writing on a piece of paper that probably never gets looks at allows someone to take money out of my bank account? Chip+Pin at least has a semblance of technical security. And cash? Don't get me started. Cash can be physically lost. Cash can be stolen. When you pay with cash, you get given coins as well as the thing yo…

These conclusions are surprising to me. I grew up in the states and lived in Canada for 4 years.

Though I agree with the lack of security offered by a signature, that method of payment is basically offered everywhere in the US. Compared to Canada its uncommon to be asked for a 5 dollar minimum purchase or a 50 cent surcharge for a credit card transaction. Furthermore, the credit limits in Canada seemed downright restrictive.

Say whatever about the security of credit cards in the US but as a consumer the product is much more compelling. I can go almost anywhere, rarely pay extra fees and easily spend all of my own money. Furthermore, why would I care about a signature? Yes its antiquated but who cares if its never used, I can charge back fraudulent charges pain free in the US which has not been my experience in Canada.

Basically, I think the user experience of paying money is really important, but chip and pin doesn't solve that problem.