I wonder if Adderall, Vyvanse, and other ADD medications are chemically similar enough to Methylphenidate that they would exhibit a similar effect.
Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice
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Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are right. Drug metabolism is key here; that´s why I am not too worried about the results of this study. I have a child (24kg) with - properly diagnosed - severe ADHD on 20mg daily and the benefits clearly outweigh the potential risks; as with everything in life, nothing has zero risk.
Adult here who has taken Methylphenidate for 28 years. I would strongly suggest that weekends and holidays are also days off the medication.
Out of curiosity why do you recommend this?
Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice
#43A quick read of the abstract indicates that loss of neurons only occurred in mice at the higher dose (10 mg/kg). Typical doses of Ritalin in kids (6+ years old) is 5-10 mg per day in two doses.[1] 6 year old weigh about 20 kg (50th percentile) so each dose is ~0.25 mg/kg (5/20). Even if you double the dose, it's 0.50 mg/kg, below the 1 mg/kg where the study saw no neuron loss. To get to 10 mg/kg, kids would have to t…
well, just an anecdote: back in 'the days' I used amphetamines (or whatever was supposed to be in the speed I bought from my dealer) for a couple of months, then quit it because it's disastrous for your body and switched to Ritalin for another couple of months because the amphetamine addiction was hard to cope with. And because Ritalin has very, very similar effects, including the side-effects like tremors and teeth…
What dose of Ritalin did you take to have such side effects?
Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are right. Drug metabolism is key here; that´s why I am not too worried about the results of this study. I have a child (24kg) with - properly diagnosed - severe ADHD on 20mg daily and the benefits clearly outweigh the potential risks; as with everything in life, nothing has zero risk.
Adult here who has taken Methylphenidate for 28 years. I would strongly suggest that weekends and holidays are also days off the medication.
Thanks for the hint. Our neuro suggested to halve the dose during weekends and holidays to avoid potential withdrawal symptoms
Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Adult here who has taken Methylphenidate for 28 years. I would strongly suggest that weekends and holidays are also days off the medication.
Out of curiosity why do you recommend this?
Because Ritalin exists to medicate children into submission so they can sit at a desk for 8 hours a day like good little workers, and it's less important to comply with this constraint on weekends and holidays, when the parents, not the school system, have to deal with the child's desire to not sit at a desk for 8 hours a day like a good little worker.
Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice
#46I think this is the money quote -- noting that these effects are noted on neurotypcial, and not on ADHD brains and therefore may or may not be generalizable: These results can only be interpreted in the context on normal brain structure and function, and thus would have direct implications for the illicit/neurocognitive use of MPH. Since the underlying anatomy and biochemistry of ADHD has not been definitively charac…
...the underlying anatomy and biochemistry of ADHD has not been definitively characterized... That's an understatement. The same could be said of any "disorder" or "syndrome" the study of which is motivated primarily by commerce in pharmaceuticals. If humanity survives long enough, future medicine will see "ADHD" as lying mostly within normal human psychological variety. Our clumsy efforts at treatment will be seen a…
That sounds sort of dismissive to people who have ADHD. It is a real condition with real effects on people's lives, who get very real benefits from medication. It is not like prescribing 6" shoes to everyone. Of course the type of medication and dosage is adjusted to the patient.
Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice
#47I wonder if Adderall, Vyvanse, and other ADD medications are chemically similar enough to Methylphenidate that they would exhibit a similar effect.
Brand names are Concerta, Methylin, Ritalin, Equasym XL. I believe Adderall and other ADHD medications are similar in. I thought it was even in the title, but possibly the mods changed it. Watch it lose traction because no one knows what "Methylphenidate" means.
Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice
#48This is anecdotal, but rodents I know never have a hard time focusing or providing requisite attention. I think that ADHD is over-diagnosed in this population. OCD, on the other hand, is prevalent, but actually beneficial for the rodent lifestyle IMHO.
Perhaps if you had finished with "sedentary lifestyle" or "consumption lifestyle" you wouldn't have been modded down so far? What do I know, I'm just another un-diagnosed aberrant.
I think he means the rats they did the study on.
Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Adult here who has taken Methylphenidate for 28 years. I would strongly suggest that weekends and holidays are also days off the medication.
Out of curiosity why do you recommend this?
As someone who's taken (and continues to take) various stimulants to manage ADD:
Because you build up a tolerance over time, which requires larger doses, and because untreated ADD/ADHD is also linked to increased creativity and some degree of impulsiveness (which can be a good thing, vs. indecisiveness).
If I were doing more creative work, I would probably go without during creative phases and with while producing (for example, as a journalist, go without to come up with ideas for stories, then back on to burn through the associated research, production, refining, etc.).
At higher doses, I'm able to fixate on one task to the exclusion of all else (e.g. distractions, music, hunger, illness); at moderate doses, I tend to flit between interesting topics until I find something I can easily focus on (or perhaps until the medication kicks in at full strength).
Re: Methylphenidate Exposure Induces Dopamine Neuron Loss in Mice
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Adult here who has taken Methylphenidate for 28 years. I would strongly suggest that weekends and holidays are also days off the medication.
Out of curiosity why do you recommend this?
Methylphenidate was inducing psychosis in me: delusions and hallucinations, which gradually got worse over time. This is a known side effect of amphetamine and similar drugs (like methylphenidate) when taken for long periods of time. When I started going off it on weekends, the psychosis stopped, and I was able to take it for several more years before I finally stopped taking it altogether. I took it ages 6 to 12 or so.
Withdrawing every weekend was uncomfortable, but better than psychosis.