Live data from Hacker News

A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

gohe.ro

41–50 of 115 posts

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#41
post #34

The article disregards the fact that a car has features that Uber doesn't. One is mobile storage: you can store things in your car that you often need wherever you go. This is particularly important for parents of young children. Another one is instant availability for open-ended road trips. It's not feasible to go visit a friend two hours away with the possibility of staying overnight with an Uber. If you're going t…

This is a good point, but there are also several Uber benefits over car ownership. For example, being able to travel when tired/inebriated. Also, not being late if you have an engine issue or get a flat tire. This article tries to enumerate the financial differences, the subjective ones are also very important.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#42
post #21

Geez, $12,744 per year ? I've had my current car since 2002, which I bought new for about $14,000 (including interest, which was low because I paid the car off as quickly as I possibly could, short circuiting most of the interest payments). I go through the exercise of the total lifetime cost of my car, gas, insurance, maintenace, all told every year or two. And it's somewhere around $.30-.40 per mile or about $1 che…

Wow, car costs per mile are extremely cheap in the United State, if $.30-.40/mile is typical. The government estimate in Finland is about $.90/mile, and almost nobody has it that cheap. If I recall correctly, I calculated my own costs at around $1/mile, and I drive a 14-year-old car which requires very little maintenance.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#43
Having done these calculations a while back, I was seriously thrown off by this claim:

> However, Americans who drive less than 9,481 miles in a year should seriously consider ditching their car, because UberX will be cheaper.

Well, maybe. I drive 5k miles a year and determined that it would be more expensive to shift to either UberX or Zipcar. Let's see what is up with the math:

> Costs of ownership

The largest error is here, where the author uses a constant number regardless of miles driven -- and then compares it to variable w/ miles UberX costs!. But maintenance, insurance, depreciation, and fuel costs are all costs that increase with miles driven.

Secondly, all these costs are taken from AAA numbers that are looking at 5 year depreciation of a new car. If you drive an older vehicle, your costs are nowhere near this high. (if they are to be believed, my cars' annual depreciation would be 80% of the value of my car!)

> Parking costs at $1300/year

First off, the claim on ABC is "average American family", not "average American" (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/average-american-spends-1300...), so this is likely off by a factor of nearly 2. Secondly, this is massively skewed by location. In dense locations (say SF), this can shoot into $2000+ a year, but in lower density places (say San Jose area), this may be well under $200. Finally, workplace parking can be paid by pre-tax dollars which lowers this cost by another 30% or so.

> Opportunity costs

Where is the assumption that car driving is at 0% productivity and UberX riding is at 50% productivity coming from? (I definitely don't believe this empirically) Also note this is ignoring any opportunity cost of having to wait for an UberX to arrive. The real opportunity cost difference may be insignificant.

My own conclusion: A single article won't allow anyone to make a determiniation. UberX may win in some cases over owning a car, but it is highly dependent on individual behavior.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#44
post #21

Geez, $12,744 per year ? I've had my current car since 2002, which I bought new for about $14,000 (including interest, which was low because I paid the car off as quickly as I possibly could, short circuiting most of the interest payments). I go through the exercise of the total lifetime cost of my car, gas, insurance, maintenace, all told every year or two. And it's somewhere around $.30-.40 per mile or about $1 che…

what car are you driving and how much mileage was on it when you bought it? I honestly think to get from point A to B, a used car will do the job just fine, sounds pretty good from what you've described.

2002 Honda Civic Sedan, 0 miles when I bought it, still had the factory shipping plastic on it.

It's not a sweet ride, it's more like an automotive appliance. It's reasonably comfortable, I change the oil regularly and take it for all the scheduled maintenance and services. But I don't take particularly good care of it.

Everything is cheap with it, tires, gas, etc.

It's only broken down on me once, and my insurance covered the tow costs, the part was a $100 Oxygen sensor.

edit

I recommend taking a look at consumer reports, look at make models for cars you are interested in, look at the used car reliability history and pick the cheapest possible car with perfect or near perfect reliability over the last 5 years. Then buy a brand new version of that car unless it's the first year of an all new model year. If that's the case, you can usually buy the outgoing model at a discount and benefit from a few years of manufacturing know how.

I came from a family thought bought exclusively used cars (and still does) and in the time I've owned my 1 car I bought new, my parents have been through maybe 7 cars? A friend of mine who also buys used exclusively, but doesn't consult Consumer Reports has been through 11 cars.

I also went through a string of used cars until finally deciding to just buy new. You might get lucky with a used car, but you never know what's happened to those cars and most people end up getting rid of cars because the repair costs are getting too high.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#45
The cost of car ownership in this article is inflated by almost 200%. It accounts payments / depreciation + interest + registration as $5,561 yearly for a mid sized sedan.

I've leased two mid-size sedans for $200/mo and $300/mo including interest, all taxes, dmv / title / registration fees. So, I am paying $2,400 / year for one car, and $3,600 /year for another, compared to $5,561 represented in the article.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not be losing wages, but you are losing time. I think that the 50% assumption in the model is wrong, too, but in the opposite direction. There are activities that many people can do while riding in a vehicle with no loss of quality, like reading. Randy Pausch - Time Management https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTugjssqOT0

Good point, I didn't think about the value of being able to do other activities. Hard to quantify with a monetary value though!

Actually it's not difficult. Calculate your hourly wage (salary + benefits)/hours_worked, and value all of your time as such. It will help you a lot to avoid wasting time doing stuff you don't like that you can pay people to do for you at a lower cost to you.

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#47
post #42
post #21

Geez, $12,744 per year ? I've had my current car since 2002, which I bought new for about $14,000 (including interest, which was low because I paid the car off as quickly as I possibly could, short circuiting most of the interest payments). I go through the exercise of the total lifetime cost of my car, gas, insurance, maintenace, all told every year or two. And it's somewhere around $.30-.40 per mile or about $1 che…

Wow, car costs per mile are extremely cheap in the United State, if $.30-.40/mile is typical. The government estimate in Finland is about $.90/mile, and almost nobody has it that cheap. If I recall correctly, I calculated my own costs at around $1/mile, and I drive a 14-year-old car which requires very little maintenance.

As of 2014, the allowable tax deduction for business reimbursements for personal vehicle usage is $.56 per mile, which is supposed to cover gas and wear and tear on your personal vehicle.

Finland: according to Numbeo [1] fuel runs around 1.66 Euro per liter. In the U.S. it's $.96 per liter (or .73 Euro).

I'm guessing there's probably some kind of auto tax in Finland which appears to be fairly expensive. I've heard it's ~20% of the current cost of the car per year, but I can't figure out the tax code from looking on-line. In the U.S. it's complicated, but in places that have a personal property tax, it's usually pretty low. I think the tax on my car is something like $250/year.

Wear and tear can cost a lot as well. I live in a pretty weather prone part of the U.S., but I'm guessing it's nothing like the typical Finnish winter.

1 - http://www.numbeo.com/gas-prices/

Re: A Financial Model Comparing Car Ownership with UberX in Los Angeles

#48
post #14
post #5

"About two years ago I sold my Lexus GS 300 and replaced it with a sleek single-speed Pure Fix commuter bike" This brought a vision of someone trying to descend from capitol hill here in seattle on a fixie (something I saw the last week) - a fixie, while still stupid is at least workable in LA (though I'd still never own one, I prefer gears), it still seems wholly impractical for seattle.

I see single-speed bikers as the luddites of cycling. I live in a relatively flat city, Dublin, but I am still constantly shifting gears. I think a lot of people don't understand how good gears really are. In a similar way, there are a lot of people cycling mountain bikes around the city, and I didn't appreciate how much better actual road bikes are while I still had my hybrid. And for non-cyclists: 15 mph (25 kmph)…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN