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From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

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41–50 of 114 posts

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#41

You really have no reason to post this here. If nothing else, you'll hit the programmer equivalent of the blue line. The people here will side with the developer reflexively. You literally have nothing to gain.

Err, that is complete nonsense. If there is a reasonable case to be made then people should consider it.

Consider it for what benefit to pigeon.ly? True there is altruistic value to the HN community, but from a business perspective his OP is likely to cause damage to his brand.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#42

I think you're going to have a hard time here trying to convince a developer community that a "refund" is something a client is entitled to in a work for hire situation. You ask a developer to do work for you, they do the requested work, and you pay them. If you don't like the work, you end the relationship. But you still have to pay them for their time. I don't envy the next few weeks for you guys, but you definitel…

Normally I'd agree with you but it sounds like this work-for-hire arrangement wasn't based on an hourly wage but rather payments for deliverables. If the software was as bad as described, no deliverables were met and the developer isn't owed a payment. Note that this assumes the contract specifies the specifications for what was deemed acceptable work.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#44
post #38

> "...the framework was not utilized correctly which resulted in the numerous bugs and browser incompatibility issues." CakePHP is a server-side framework. Browser incompatibility is not going to be an issue of CakePHP. Either you are too inexperienced to know this or you are making a lame excuse. I can see where this would go wrong if the developer made a complete rookie mistake and screwing up input on forms, metho…

> I can see where this would go wrong if the developer made a complete rookie mistake and screwing up input on forms, methods, requests, etc. But these are the reasons for choosing and using a framework ...

I think you just pointed what the problem might've actually been: Not using the framework to prevent browser incompatibility. The OP didn't say that CakePHP was the cause of the problem.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#45

I think you're going to have a hard time here trying to convince a developer community that a "refund" is something a client is entitled to in a work for hire situation. You ask a developer to do work for you, they do the requested work, and you pay them. If you don't like the work, you end the relationship. But you still have to pay them for their time. I don't envy the next few weeks for you guys, but you definitel…

You ask a developer to do work for you, they do the requested work, and you pay them. If you don't like the work, you end the relationship. But you still have to pay them for their time.

This is not a given, and it's why we have contracts. I've certainly never worked one that was refundable, but you never know.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#46
post #5

> Everyone who evaluated the code said the same thing, to sum it up (in their professorial opinion) the framework was not utilized correctly which resulted in the numerous bugs and browser incompatibility issues. How using PHP framework may result in browser incompatibility issues? Whole processing happens in the server side for PHP, not in browser...

In the past I've definitely written PHP that worked in one browser but not another. I don't know why this is the hardest part of the story to believe.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#47
Most comments here are critical and I tend to agree in that 1) it's unclear whether you "requested a refund" or chargebacked and 2) if you don't like someone's work, you still have to pay the hours they spent. That's the risk when hiring someone, unless there are specific requirements that weren't met by the developer.

On the other hand I would like to say that it's good to open the discussion instead of, like most companies would, not responding and letting the legal team handle anything if necessary.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#48
Interesting situation. One point to make: CakePHP cannot cause browser compatibility issues. CakePHP is a backend framework and does not itself cause client side issues. I know this is splitting hairs, but a lot of things can contribute to client-side issues. If a design is in bad shape (ie. browser considerations were not made during planning), then CakePHP wouldn't be a relevant point for front-end issues.

That's all, carry on. I hope everyone's bickering and finger-pointing goes well on this fine Friday.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#49

You really have no reason to post this here. If nothing else, you'll hit the programmer equivalent of the blue line. The people here will side with the developer reflexively. You literally have nothing to gain.

He shouldn't talk about how the code was crap and that he deserved a refund.

But he should say (if true) that they threw out the old code because of reasons, and rewrote it from scratch.

That was the biggest issue raised in the initial allegation: that they were currently using code that they had not paid for.

Re: From the startup who allegedly stole software and raised $2M with it

#50
I worked as a contract engineer for several years and here is my take:

Typically in a contract relationship you have alot less obligations than hiring a salaried employee. At the same time, this person is using their valuable time towards your project. As a result of this, they usually ask for compensation which is agreed upon beforehand.

You agreed to a certain amount of compensation, and than chose not to pay. Sometimes contractors do not meet expectation, and I've seen this happen. But if you have already agreed upon milestones it is only appropriate to pay them at least up to the point at which you request they quit or fire them.

If you did not agree upon milestones (which a business with your funding should have.) You should still be paying him for the work done. Your disagreement over his work could cause his family to go hungry for a week. Such is the life of a contractor.

All in all, perhaps both of you performed without much regard to ethic. He did a shoddy job and you refused to pay. But your running the business and as a result have a lot more to lose from a bad image.

Just pay up and move on.

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