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The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

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Re: The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

#41

Post by coliveira »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #7
slg wrote: post #4

I wonder if a person like this came along today, whether they would be allowed to have the same type of impact in the variety of different ways that John von Neumann did. Whether he was advancing economic theory or telling the military the most efficient altitude to detonate a bomb, it was all the same basic skill set. He was just a crazy smart and logical guy and he applied that to every field that he could. I can't…

I think in many ways, in terms of exploring scientific and engineering realms, we're more conservative now. Personally, I'm doing a PhD in computer science, and I find it incredibly frustrating. Publishing papers is all about minute incremental improvements, and you absolutely must have numerical results to prove that you beat the competition. You can't publish negative results either, your work is considered worthle…

Implementing a new language was never such an exciting deal as many think. New languages happen more because of the need than because of properties of the language itself. For example, C was created because a language with those features were necessary for the UNIX project. Similarly for Smalltalk and the environment at PARC. Lisp is a little different because it started as theory that was eventually implemented.

Re: The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

#42

Post by fail2ban »

irremediable wrote: post #31
jerf wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's tricky stuff... Feynman was (is?) a hero of mine, and I struggle to put this stuff in context." Heros have feet of clay. The correct move is to adjust your concept of "hero" to include this. The alternative, that you will only declare someone a "hero" if they are perfect in every way yields a definition of "hero" with 0 instances, which is a useless definition. If Feynmann was abusive to his wife to some degree…

I half-agree with you, but isn't there an ethical line past which it's wrong to call someone a hero?

Isn't that something you should decide for yourself? Also, why do you assume there's a duality between hero and non-hero? The person did what they did. Simplifying it to the point of 'hero' or 'not hero' is overgeneralizing, I think. Acknowledge their achievements. Acknowledge their faults. Labels aren't a requirement.

Re: The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

#43

Post by bdamm »

irremediable wrote: post #31
jerf wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's tricky stuff... Feynman was (is?) a hero of mine, and I struggle to put this stuff in context." Heros have feet of clay. The correct move is to adjust your concept of "hero" to include this. The alternative, that you will only declare someone a "hero" if they are perfect in every way yields a definition of "hero" with 0 instances, which is a useless definition. If Feynmann was abusive to his wife to some degree…

I half-agree with you, but isn't there an ethical line past which it's wrong to call someone a hero?

Shine a bright enough light and everyone is hiding cockroaches.

Re: The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

#44

Post by spindritf »

What I find truly remarkable about polymaths is that they don't seem to be crippled in other regards. There is no trade-off. Actually, abilities seem to positivly correlate rather than displace each other.

It seems like there's a free lunch somewhere. Which is unusual for living beings, for evolution to miss it.

Re: The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

#45

Post by e12e »

coliveira wrote: post #41
tachyonbeam wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in many ways, in terms of exploring scientific and engineering realms, we're more conservative now. Personally, I'm doing a PhD in computer science, and I find it incredibly frustrating. Publishing papers is all about minute incremental improvements, and you absolutely must have numerical results to prove that you beat the competition. You can't publish negative results either, your work is considered worthle…

Implementing a new language was never such an exciting deal as many think. New languages happen more because of the need than because of properties of the language itself. For example, C was created because a language with those features were necessary for the UNIX project. Similarly for Smalltalk and the environment at PARC. Lisp is a little different because it started as theory that was eventually implemented.

The modern language that comes to mind, is of course, Haskell. And "in between" we have Standard ML. And I think one could argue that the Dylan revival project and Rust are various extensions on the idea of invent(academically)-implement(pragmatically). And the Racket ball is still rolling, of course.

So, I don't think it's right to say that things are all different now. Might be that the maturation of computer science into a "science" field feels a bit like it's taking the joy out of things. But I think if you look at stuff that was published earlier, there's a divide between rather conservative work founded in logic and discrete mathematics, and more exploratory work in what would now be considered "computer science". I'm not convinced all of that would really be considered "published research" though (as in qualifying for a ph.d etc).

It's not like you'd be able to publish a study in medicine on the benefit of washing your hands before you deliver a baby, after you've done an autopsy -- we've already figured out a lot of the elegantly simple stuff.

Re: The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

#46

Post by topkekz »

jnazario wrote: post #2

John von Neumann was an absolutely amazing human and scientist. truly a genius, a polymath, and evidently quite an interesting party guest. the book Prisoner's Dilemma is ostensibly about game theory but it's set within the context of von Neumann's life. really quite fascinating, one of my favorite people to study. http://www.amazon.com/Prisoners-Dilemma-William-Poundstone/d...

"John von Neumann invented the digital computer"

Mauchly and Eckert did but Neumann came and stole the fame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mauchly#EDVAC

Eniac: The Triumphs and Tragedies of the World's First Computer, Scott McCartney

http://www.2think.org/eniac.shtml

Re: The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

#47

Post by e12e »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #35
darkmighty wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And von Neumann lived mostly though war and 30's financial crisis. I honestly think it's more a question of (lack of) will/confidence from part of academia. I bet if had really good ideas about new languages and really wanted to dig deep on that he would be able to do so without starving. Maryam Mirzakhani (this year's female fields Medalist) commented that she's quite a slow thinker, and left a clear impression that…

My understanding is that during the war, the american government was throwing money around liberally. Trying to do everything it could to outwit and outdo the enemy. This is part of what caused the post-war economic boom, money being distributed and more people getting a chance to prosper.

Makes one wonder what the NSA have been doing since the 80s. They're supposed to be the biggest employer of mathematicians, and since the 90s they've had their very own "war budget". Maybe in 2050 we'll say -- oh wow, look at all the great stuff that came out of the islamophobic-fuelled war on the middle east that the US spearheaded. Shame about the future ruined for half a billion people, but boy did they come up with some crazy stuff at the NSA!

Re: The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

#48

Post by darkmighty »

e12e wrote: post #47
tachyonbeam wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that during the war, the american government was throwing money around liberally. Trying to do everything it could to outwit and outdo the enemy. This is part of what caused the post-war economic boom, money being distributed and more people getting a chance to prosper.

Makes one wonder what the NSA have been doing since the 80s. They're supposed to be the biggest employer of mathematicians, and since the 90s they've had their very own "war budget". Maybe in 2050 we'll say -- oh wow, look at all the great stuff that came out of the islamophobic-fuelled war on the middle east that the US spearheaded. Shame about the future ruined for half a billion people, but boy did they come up wi…

We're more likely to say "what a huge burden was NSA!". Major crypto breakthroughs created there (in either breaking something/creating something) would be kept secret for years, so it just bogs down innovation. GCHQ infamously invented public key crypto but no one was allowed to show outsiders for comment so it just died there until it was reinvented a few years later.

Re: The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

#49

Post by xrange »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #35
darkmighty wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And von Neumann lived mostly though war and 30's financial crisis. I honestly think it's more a question of (lack of) will/confidence from part of academia. I bet if had really good ideas about new languages and really wanted to dig deep on that he would be able to do so without starving. Maryam Mirzakhani (this year's female fields Medalist) commented that she's quite a slow thinker, and left a clear impression that…

My understanding is that during the war, the american government was throwing money around liberally. Trying to do everything it could to outwit and outdo the enemy. This is part of what caused the post-war economic boom, money being distributed and more people getting a chance to prosper.

My understanding is that after the war, the rest of the world needed to buy stuff, but the U.S. was the only major country with an intact manufacturing base. So that's why the U.S. made 30.5% the world's manufactured goods exports in 1948, compared to 15.3% in 1938. See table XXIII on page 52 of:

http://unstats.un.org/unsd/trade/imts/Historical%20data%2019...

Re: The legend of John von Neumann (1973)

#50

Post by lifeisstillgood »

spindritf wrote: post #44

What I find truly remarkable about polymaths is that they don't seem to be crippled in other regards. There is no trade-off. Actually, abilities seem to positivly correlate rather than displace each other. It seems like there's a free lunch somewhere. Which is unusual for living beings, for evolution to miss it.

Niels Bohr - Nobel Prie winner, Quantum THeoretician, Olympic athlete.

I think you might be onto something - I suspect its that genius is not genetic, which indicates it might be nurture not nature - which means things might be really cool for humans in a hundred years.

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