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Dune Genesis (1980)

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41–50 of 73 posts

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#41
Reading Herbert's thoughts on Dune and the all-too-human nature of superheroes reminded me of "The Bureau of Sabotage" (1) from two of his other books, The Dosadi Experiment and Whipping Star:

In Herbert's fiction, sometime in the far future, government becomes terrifyingly efficient. Red tape no longer exists: laws are conceived of, passed, funded, and executed within hours, rather than months. The bureaucratic machinery becomes a juggernaut, rolling over human concerns and welfare with terrible speed, jerking the universe of sentients one way, then another, threatening to destroy everything in a fit of spastic reactions. In short, the speed of government goes beyond sentient control ... Founded by the mysterious "Five Ears" of unknown species, BuSab began as a terrorist organization whose sole purpose was to frustrate the workings of government in order to give sentients a chance to reflect upon changes and deal with them. Having saved sentiency from its government, BuSab was officially recognized as a necessary check on the power of government. It provides a natural (and lucrative) outlet for society's regular crop of troublemakers, who must be countered by society's regular crop of "do-gooders".

FWIW, I find Dune and many other classics of sci-fi (extended to film, TV and videogames) so compelling because it's a solid story built on the foundation of a carefully imagined and visualized universe ... down to the political power structure. There are a few other universes worlds that also hold up, despite some poor sequels and side projects ... Urth, LOTR, Star Wars, Half-life, etc.

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Sabotage

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#42

It probably doesn't need to be said here, but if you haven't read Dune, stop what you're doing and read Dune. If like me you enjoyed the idea of LoTR but found the writing irritating, you're going to bloody love Dune. Don't worry too much about the many sequels, they can get a bit too weird. The first book stands alone just fine.

My advice to people on the sequels is to keep going until they don't like them anymore. They definitely don't get better.

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#43

It probably doesn't need to be said here, but if you haven't read Dune, stop what you're doing and read Dune. If like me you enjoyed the idea of LoTR but found the writing irritating, you're going to bloody love Dune. Don't worry too much about the many sequels, they can get a bit too weird. The first book stands alone just fine.

My advice to people on the sequels is to keep going until they don't like them anymore. They definitely don't get better.

So I finished reading Dune recently. I did not enjoy it as much as I thought I would. My main problem with it was how predictable it was: gifted kid succeeds in everything he does. A question I have is whether I should read the two immediate sequels. Do they actually explore the whole "superheroes are bad" theme more? Would I get a better sense of the context for what Dune really was about?

My first exposure to the Dune universe was actually the DOS game Dune II, which is funny since it had nothing to do with the storyline. Honestly, I found the game more enjoyable than the book.

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#44
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry too much about the many sequels, they can get a bit too weird. The first book stands alone just fine. True, but if you decide to read the sequels, only read the Frank Herbert sequels. The Brian Herbert/Kevin J. Anderson novels are more like poor fanfiction than sequels.

Even the Herbert sequels are not really that good. I'd recommend new readers to stop at Dune to avoid destroying their image of the Universe.

I liked the later books a lot, the plots and story are sometimes very very weird, but the quotes and philosophy are really pretty darn amazing.

All the Frank Herbert sequels are worth reading for those alone, but it took me some effort to get through books 2 and 3. It gets better (but weirder) later in terms of quotes/philosophy/randomness. Plot not so much on occasion, quotes? Very very interesting.

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#45
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the legends of dune trilogy were the only good dune books. the reset were drivel in my opinion. that said, i did read them all, so they can't have been that bad, but i did spend most of the time waiting for the robots to come back. which they don't do :(

You didn't read far enough...

i read all of them, and true they did come back in the end, but it wasn't worth reading all the others for

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice to people on the sequels is to keep going until they don't like them anymore. They definitely don't get better.

So I finished reading Dune recently. I did not enjoy it as much as I thought I would. My main problem with it was how predictable it was: gifted kid succeeds in everything he does. A question I have is whether I should read the two immediate sequels. Do they actually explore the whole "superheroes are bad" theme more? Would I get a better sense of the context for what Dune really was about? My first exposure to the D…

> Do they actually explore the whole "superheroes are bad" theme more? Would I get a better sense of the context for what Dune really was about?

Yes. I'd say the "superheroes are bad" theme doesn't even come to its real fruition until God Emperor of Dune, especially as realized through the eyes of Duncan. But even in the context of Dune alone, I think you're missing the implications of Paul's ascension. In order to revenge himself on the Harkonnens and the Emperor, Paul had to ally himself with the Fremen. And to render the Freman united, effective allies, he had to make himself a religious figure. As a consequence, revealed in his prescient visions in Dune, Paul has unleashed a murderous Fremen-led jihad on the galaxy that will kill tens of billions.

Dune Messiah and Children of Dune certainly go more in depth into what is discussed in the article though. This quote from the article particularly brings them to mind:

This grows from my theory that superheroes are disastrous for humankind. Even if we find a real hero (whatever-or whoever-that may be), eventually fallible mortals take over the power structure that always comes into being around such a leader.

But if you did not enjoy Dune, I am doubtful you will enjoy the sequels.

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My advice to people on the sequels is to keep going until they don't like them anymore. They definitely don't get better.

So I finished reading Dune recently. I did not enjoy it as much as I thought I would. My main problem with it was how predictable it was: gifted kid succeeds in everything he does. A question I have is whether I should read the two immediate sequels. Do they actually explore the whole "superheroes are bad" theme more? Would I get a better sense of the context for what Dune really was about? My first exposure to the D…

> gifted kid succeeds in everything he does.

That's not really what the story is about, it's more about politics and how religions are fabricated,for the sake of politics.Paul is neither the muadib nor the kwisatz haderach.

I think the 2 immediate sequels are interesting,the books after them are unnecessary.

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#49

I just finished re-reading the series last week, including the last 2 books by his son. Those last 2 weren't completely awful, but they certainly didn't live up to the standards set by the original author. The only point that I was truly disappointed with the writing was when I read the following words: "male bene gesserit". There were plenty of other inconsistencies as well, but as when watching any good movie, you…

I have read the entire original series 3-4 times.

I was also greatly disappointed by the sequels/prequels not written by Frank Herbert.

BUT ... the biography "Dreamer of Dune" is well worth reading - very interesting and revealing.

Re: Dune Genesis (1980)

#50
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually find that God Emperor of Dune was my favorite, not Dune itself. I don't recall whether it was Chapterhouse or Heretics , but the scene with the Bene Gesserit in the cave has stood out in my mind for years. Really, the writing style is the same, and there's a lot of "idea" content in the sequels, especially God Emperor . I really don't feel the Dune universe is any different - but the events of Dune did cha…

I've read the first six. Rereading, I stopped at God Emperor. I tell people who are thinking about reading it that if they found Dune to be slow and difficult that they should just stop at the first one. It's a lot of world building and politics as it goes on.

I found that I like the politics more than the sci-fi part of it. I believe the politics made the series that good.

Just like in Game of Thrones, where politics is more important than the fantastic creatures or magic.

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