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What Do Blind People Actually See?

nautil.us

41–50 of 119 posts

Re: What Do Blind People Actually See?

#41
post #5
post #2

As someone who has been blind since birth this is accurate. I know that people who go blind later in life continue to dream in color since they have the memory of color to reference while I do not. I wonder if someone who goes blind later in life experiences things differently, possibly by automatically filling in what they assume they would see based on what they know of there surroundings from there other sences.

I've always wondered how someone born blind is able to wrap their mind around the concept of color. It appears you've done so -- how would you describe color?

I don’t have any meaningful concept of color. I do have some light perception so assume that white is what I see if you shine a light in my eye, black is what I see when all the lights are turned off and gray is the middle ground when there are some lights turned on but not enough for the light to actually be painful. Intellectually I realize there are other colors but the only way I can explain them is in reference to objects. Grass is green, the ocean is blue, etc. I realize that this is meaningless since I don’t have a frame of reference to compare the ocean to grass from a visual perspective.

Re: What Do Blind People Actually See?

#42
post #3
post #2

As someone who has been blind since birth this is accurate. I know that people who go blind later in life continue to dream in color since they have the memory of color to reference while I do not. I wonder if someone who goes blind later in life experiences things differently, possibly by automatically filling in what they assume they would see based on what they know of there surroundings from there other sences.

Have you considered a haptic device like the one in the article?

No. I've found that a GPS on a smart phone works fairly well for me if it's an area I am generally familiar with.

Re: What Do Blind People Actually See?

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not blind, but I do occasionally get migraines with visual auras, as do my wife & mother. Exactly once in my life that I recall, I had a migraine that caused total perceptual blindness (oddly, this has also happened exactly once to my wife, before we knew each other). It's extremely odd- one's visual field (at least in our cases) steadily contracts, until there's just nothing left. It's not an annulus of darknes…

It's extremely odd- one's visual field (at least in our cases) steadily contracts, until there's just nothing left. It's not an annulus of darkness closing in, it's juts nothing- the field you can see is smaller, and there's still nothing outside of it, just like there always isn't. This is the first time I've heard of anyone else experiencing this phenomenon besides myself. Have there ever been any long-term effects…

I got that on occasion (though infrequently) and it's usually after prolonged sleep deprivation.

Re: What Do Blind People Actually See?

#44
post #12

> “When the belt experiment was over, Wächter felt lost” It seems slightly cruel to me to give someone a device to augment their senses without some provision for them to continue using it if the experiment is successful. I suppose it's also possible that Wächter didn't want to continue using / being reliant upon the belt despite the loss of the spatial sense it had provided.

That reminds me of the experiment where someone lived with upside down goggles[1]. Just like with babies trying to understand what they see, his brain had to adapt to everything and he had to relearn to perform the actions.

I wonder how it was once he took them off.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kohUpQwZt8

Re: What Do Blind People Actually See?

#45
post #2

As someone who has been blind since birth this is accurate. I know that people who go blind later in life continue to dream in color since they have the memory of color to reference while I do not. I wonder if someone who goes blind later in life experiences things differently, possibly by automatically filling in what they assume they would see based on what they know of there surroundings from there other sences.

I am not blind, but I do occasionally get migraines with visual auras, as do my wife & mother. Exactly once in my life that I recall, I had a migraine that caused total perceptual blindness (oddly, this has also happened exactly once to my wife, before we knew each other). It's extremely odd- one's visual field (at least in our cases) steadily contracts, until there's just nothing left. It's not an annulus of darknes…

I've had a few auras, and my experience was different. There was an ever increasing spot of vision missing, which came to engulf half my vision, but of course I'm aware that the missing part is cutting into my field of vision; I could still map the places in the field of vision where I should see external objects, and imagine something superimposed there. I would say that it was similar to (but eventually larger than) the natural blind spot that occurs where the optic nerve meets the retina. There is no specific color there (it is not black), but we know that an object which should be seen has disappeared because of that spot, and we can imagine that it ought to be there.

I'd like to add that I had a recent recurrence of an aura, after some twenty years! It did not precipitate in a headache, and it was the type with a zig-zag edge surrounding the blind spot: an edge of shimmering color. After it came and went, I prepared myself for a headache, but it never happened.

Re: What Do Blind People Actually See?

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been blind in my left eye since birth and kids often asked me what I saw, assuming that it was just blackness. In my case if you shine a flashlight in my left eye at the right angle I can see a flash of color, but otherwise there's just no perception at all. It's probably worth clarifying what we mean by blind. The article and the parent comment are talking about having no light perception at all. However, many…

I've heard it described that blind people see what we see out of our left eye when we only have our right eye open. It's not blackness, it's just no perception.

That is a very interesting observation! When we close both eyes, we perceive a blackness, or perhaps some sort of reddish/purplish glow of light through eyelids, or the after-effect of light. However, by keeping one eye open, it seems any signal from the closed eye is overridden, so you really don't perceive anything there.

Re: What Do Blind People Actually See?

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not blind, but I do occasionally get migraines with visual auras, as do my wife & mother. Exactly once in my life that I recall, I had a migraine that caused total perceptual blindness (oddly, this has also happened exactly once to my wife, before we knew each other). It's extremely odd- one's visual field (at least in our cases) steadily contracts, until there's just nothing left. It's not an annulus of darknes…

It's extremely odd- one's visual field (at least in our cases) steadily contracts, until there's just nothing left. It's not an annulus of darkness closing in, it's juts nothing- the field you can see is smaller, and there's still nothing outside of it, just like there always isn't. This is the first time I've heard of anyone else experiencing this phenomenon besides myself. Have there ever been any long-term effects…

No long-term effects that I know of, aside from the simple on-going fact that I have migraines; they didn't get any worse or more frequent after that, nor have I since developed any other visual or neurological symptoms. As it happens, I don't get migraines very often- once or twice a year. My wife & mother both get them on a much more regular basis, once or twice a month.

The loss of foveal vision or random patches of the visual field (as opposed to gradual-leading-to-total elimination of the entire visual field) is something I have encountered a few times. As quantumet noted, auras are kind of a grab-bag, different people can have wildly different kinds of visual distortions, and some migraine sufferers don't have them at all. I know one who gets aural (hearing) distortions instead; meanwhile, I don't get any hearing issues, and my wife becomes hypersensitive to sound but doesn't experience distortion.

Migraines, generally, like seizures, are a result of mis-fires in your brain (super simplified explanation, of course). Essentially, something goes wrong such that your brain just decides that it is in pain for no particular reason (although there are triggers, just like there are triggers to epilepsy, that set of just the wrong cascade of neurons). Auras are just another manifestation of the same thing- if the thing that goes wrong goes wrong in or near your visual cortex, you get visual distortions in addition to the pain. Eventually, your brain resets, and then things are normal again, until your brain (metaphorically speaking) tries to read out-of-bounds memory, or goes into an infinite loop, or whatever else it is (again as quantumet noted, the exact mechanism is not really all that well understood), the next time.

Side note, on how everybody's auras are a little different- we just found out about a month ago that my most common aura is blue sparkles, while my wife's is gold sparkles. We knew that we both commonly saw sparkles, just never happened to mention the color before. Also incidentally, I do get auras much more often than I progress to a full-blown migraine headache.

Since the problem is neurological, eye doctors generally won't be able to figure it out or do anything about it. Generally, because eye problems can be migraine triggers. My wife starts getting headaches if she leaves her glasses off too long, and one of the first things to check when migraine frequency increases is whether her prescription has gone out of date. Other triggers are dehydration (for her) hunger (for both of us; this is a problem for me because I don't get hungry normally, so sometimes the first indication that I need to eat today is the onset of a headache) and sleep deprivation (for both of us).

Re: What Do Blind People Actually See?

#49
This made me realize that while it is instinctively difficult to imagine a lack of sight or touch, a lack of sound, smell, or taste, seems relatively easy to imagine. Sight vs sound is especially interesting; we tend to think of lack of sight as blackness, as the article describes, but there doesn't seem to be an instinctive parallel for lack of sound (at least in my mind). I guess it would be "silence", but that's much more akin to lack of sound than the concept of blackness is to lack of sight (even if blackness is technically lack of light).

Although having written that, I now wonder whether a person who loses their hearing might be plagued by phantom hums or such things, as can sometimes happen to hearing people when exposed to extended silence.

Re: What Do Blind People Actually See?

#50
post #41
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered how someone born blind is able to wrap their mind around the concept of color. It appears you've done so -- how would you describe color?

I don’t have any meaningful concept of color. I do have some light perception so assume that white is what I see if you shine a light in my eye, black is what I see when all the lights are turned off and gray is the middle ground when there are some lights turned on but not enough for the light to actually be painful. Intellectually I realize there are other colors but the only way I can explain them is in reference…

If you have some light perception, what happens if you shine different colors of light in your eye?
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