Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is a Hard Life Inherited?

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 68 posts

Re: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

#41

Post by jeffreyrogers »

norswap wrote: post #31

From an European (Belgian, if you're interested) perspective, it's borderline shocking that these questions are so hotly debated. When I contrast the image I get by consuming American media and what I witness here, the contrast is astonishing. Social mobility seems to be much more prevalent here than in the states. Of course, the gap between "poors" and "rich" is much smaller. But I can legitimately say that everyone…

These are all good points, but it's also important to realize that American and European populations are very different in regards to constituency (you touched on this a bit with your point about the rich-poor gap). So a simple drop-in-place European substitute isn't likely to be as effective as it might seem.

That's not to say that things don't need to change or that they have to be this way, but I think it will require more than simply copying Europe.

Re: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

#42

Post by NAFV_P »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #11

I'm going to post a recent Onion article. It shares some of my thoughts on the subject matter far more eloquently than my own words ever could. "White Male Privilege Squandered On Job At Best Buy HAMILTON, OH—Despite being the beneficiary of numerous societal advantages and having faced little to no major adversity throughout his life, local man Travis Benton has spent the last four years squandering his white male p…

> I'm going to post a recent Onion article. It shares some of my thoughts on the subject matter far more eloquently than my own words ever could.

Eloquent or not, I thought that the supplied article was irresponsible and lacked substance.

I sincerely hope that the given name "Travis Benton", is a pseudonym (and that photograph is not of him). If a potential employer has perused this article, it could effect his chances of gaining more suitable or substantial employment.

The article has possibly put "Mr. Benton" at a serious disadvantage in life. If a similar article was published about me I would call up the editor and shoot hell-fire down the phone.

Re: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

#43

Post by zo1 »

ivoras wrote: post #24

I'm not sure if most of the commentators here are joking or just being too subtly sarcastic, but truly the best predictor of a person's success is the success of his parents during his formative years. It's not a hard-coded rule, but it's statistics: if, given two persons of equal age, gender and health, you would have to bet how they turn out, your best bet would be to look at their parents and assume the same will…

But at what point do we draw the line of responsibility? There are many examples of poor/struggling people that made the best of what they had and made sure that their children had a good start in life.

Yes, my parents were poor and struggling. But they pushed through, made sacrifices and made sure that me and my sister had a good start in life. Free from the burdens that they bore.

To me, the line of responsibility does not cross over a generational boundary. All these individuals that have rough and tough childhoods, are responsible for their own actions. And they're also responsible for not ruining an innocent's or unborn's future by bringing them into this world, and then abandoning them by not doing their best to break the cycle of violence, poverty and lack of education.

Re: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

#44

Post by evilduck »

NAFV_P wrote: post #42
forrestthewoods wrote: post #11

I'm going to post a recent Onion article. It shares some of my thoughts on the subject matter far more eloquently than my own words ever could. "White Male Privilege Squandered On Job At Best Buy HAMILTON, OH—Despite being the beneficiary of numerous societal advantages and having faced little to no major adversity throughout his life, local man Travis Benton has spent the last four years squandering his white male p…

> I'm going to post a recent Onion article. It shares some of my thoughts on the subject matter far more eloquently than my own words ever could. Eloquent or not, I thought that the supplied article was irresponsible and lacked substance. I sincerely hope that the given name "Travis Benton", is a pseudonym (and that photograph is not of him). If a potential employer has perused this article, it could effect his chanc…

The Onion is a satire site...

Re: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

#45

Post by zo1 »

avz wrote: post #18

Many successful people will resent contributing to the welfare of the not-so-successful regardless of who is to blame for the misfortune of the latter. It's yet another instance of the tribal mentality dividing people into "us" and "them". We generally find it easier to empathize with those who are like us and perceived to belong to the same group. I used to think tribal divisions are characteristic of the earlier st…

"Many successful people will resent contributing to the welfare of the not-so-successful regardless of who is to blame for the misfortune of the latter. It's yet another instance of the tribal mentality dividing people into "us" and "them"."

Yes, but you should take care to not attribute their definitions of "us" and "them", with the ones you imagine they do. It's all too-popular to assume that they mean "us, wealthy" and "them, lazy entitled leeches".

It could just as well mean something a little more genuine such as "us, hardworking" and "them, mooching off the state/our hardwork".

I'm not saying it's either. But I find that people regularly attribute very mean, hateful and prejudiced motivations to the rich, privileged or those they don't like. Most of the time, it's simply implied in the comments.

Re: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

#46

Post by _greim_ »

zo1 wrote: post #43
ivoras wrote: post #24

I'm not sure if most of the commentators here are joking or just being too subtly sarcastic, but truly the best predictor of a person's success is the success of his parents during his formative years. It's not a hard-coded rule, but it's statistics: if, given two persons of equal age, gender and health, you would have to bet how they turn out, your best bet would be to look at their parents and assume the same will…

But at what point do we draw the line of responsibility? There are many examples of poor/struggling people that made the best of what they had and made sure that their children had a good start in life. Yes, my parents were poor and struggling. But they pushed through, made sacrifices and made sure that me and my sister had a good start in life. Free from the burdens that they bore. To me, the line of responsibility…

Even if responsibility lands on the individual, rather than background circumstances, it's still reasonable to try to figure out how to break the cycle, isn't it? It's possible to hold someone guilty, and still have empathy.

Re: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

#47

Post by Dewie »

norswap wrote: post #31

From an European (Belgian, if you're interested) perspective, it's borderline shocking that these questions are so hotly debated. When I contrast the image I get by consuming American media and what I witness here, the contrast is astonishing. Social mobility seems to be much more prevalent here than in the states. Of course, the gap between "poors" and "rich" is much smaller. But I can legitimately say that everyone…

> From an European (Belgian, if you're interested)

That's certainly more interesting than just the generic European.

EDIT: I mean: saying that you are of a certain nationality is more specific, and therefore more interesting, than just saying that you are from somewhere on that continent!

Re: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

#48

Post by NAFV_P »

evilduck wrote: post #44
NAFV_P wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm going to post a recent Onion article. It shares some of my thoughts on the subject matter far more eloquently than my own words ever could. Eloquent or not, I thought that the supplied article was irresponsible and lacked substance. I sincerely hope that the given name "Travis Benton", is a pseudonym (and that photograph is not of him). If a potential employer has perused this article, it could effect his chanc…

The Onion is a satire site...

I wasn't aware of that, cheers.

EDIT: This indicates that the original comment [0] is quite opaque.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8160323

Re: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

#49

Post by rdam »

zo1 wrote: post #43
ivoras wrote: post #24

I'm not sure if most of the commentators here are joking or just being too subtly sarcastic, but truly the best predictor of a person's success is the success of his parents during his formative years. It's not a hard-coded rule, but it's statistics: if, given two persons of equal age, gender and health, you would have to bet how they turn out, your best bet would be to look at their parents and assume the same will…

But at what point do we draw the line of responsibility? There are many examples of poor/struggling people that made the best of what they had and made sure that their children had a good start in life. Yes, my parents were poor and struggling. But they pushed through, made sacrifices and made sure that me and my sister had a good start in life. Free from the burdens that they bore. To me, the line of responsibility…

You were lucky enough to have parents who pushed through and made sacrifices. Not everyone is so lucky. That is exactly the point the article is making. You're blaming the children for having inadequate parents.

Re: Is a Hard Life Inherited?

#50

Post by _greim_ »

> But the essential starting point is empathy.

This is great, but even if it's not true, you can approach the issue from a completely selfish, cold-hearted point of view and still arrive at similar conclusions. Poverty is a drain on every aspect of society. If we (the privileged) can figure out how to minimize it, think how much better a place the world would be for ourselves and our children. How much safer would the streets be, how much less tax money would be sucked into prisons, law enforcement, medicare, or various other forms of welfare, how many fewer broken families and unwanted children there would be to contend with.

Post reply on HN