I just did the SF --> DFW move this week. Housing is 10x cheaper so that tipped the pluses ahead of the minuses for me, and it's still a big city so you can find decent things to do outside of work. Have my own b2b company that I'm bootstrapping, so I realized I wasn't tied to SF anymore for any particular reason. Will be interesting to see how the next year goes!
Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities
41–50 of 115 posts
Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for the write-up. What's the climate like? Does it feel weird not being able to drive to a beach/ocean easily? How did you decide on OKC? I've always imaged Boulder would be nice if I ever moved inland?
Honestly, the climate is not that great - we have both extremes (really host in the summer, and snow/ice in the winder), and I do really miss the beach - that is the #1 thing I miss about CA. Central Oklahoma is also fairly flat, so if you like mountains in the distance and a little colder climate, Boulder may be more your thing. The key for me is how much impact I can have here. I feel like Boulder already has a lot…
You left out being in Tornado Alley and otherwise nasty storms.
Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?
I know Google, Facebook, Apple, and others have been visibly increasing their presence in Austin. Apple was putting up offices across the street from my old apartment complex, and the scuttlebutt was they were adding 4,000-some-odd-employees here over the next few years.
What parts of Austin are those big companies located in? (When I left Austin in 2007 Google had just announced an office, which they closed a couple years later.)
Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think pay is as much lower as you think it is. I keep in touch with a lot of people in tech from all around the country. Those in flyover country (Denver, OKC, Austin) make less money than those in comparable positions on the coast, but it might be 10% less. Meanwhile their housing costs are typically less than half. For comparison purposes: For the same price as this 800 square foot 1 bedroom condo in SF htt…
"and quite possibly more." There's an understatement. This is a problem with recruitment to the coasts. I can't tolerate the hit in the quality of life that moving to Mountain View would require. They offered me like $50K more than I am currently getting, which sounds nice, but to live the same lifestyle with respect to house and school district would have taken at least $100K more per year probably more like $150K m…
Sounds like you're in the Milwaukee area? I'm from there, but likely won't move back due to the lack of job opportunities. For others curious about Wisconsin, Madison isn't much more expensive and has significantly better tech job opportunities, so far as I hear.
Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities
#45Man, I feel like I'm going to be really negative, I hope not, but here goes: OKC is undergoing an oil boom, the secondary effects of which are being reported in this article (IMO). My advice: come live in Oklahoma or Kansas if you actually like it here and want to be here for a long time, because when the boom dies, you'll find it harder to leave. Opportunities abound on the coasts. Texas, well, Texas is always a gre…
Agreed this was super OKC focused (almost felt like OKC planted story if it wasn't the NY Times!) but the data supports the fact this is a broader trend.
Could be OKC is just good at PR. The mayor is an ex-TV celebrity and a perfectly reasonable person who makes a good interview. They interviewed him on NPR recently and his side was, in summary, they needed to spend money so they raised a tax and spent the money.
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/19/145437581/oklahoma-city-avoids...
It's a pretty good example of why Republicans make good mayors, even when state and national level Republican politicians are insane.
Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many of the best jobs in areas such as technology, design and finance are on the coasts. No doubt that costs are lower in the middle of the country, but pay is also substantially lower. I wonder why more top companies don't try to take advantage of the cost savings of setting up in middle America vs. outsourcing jobs abroad?
Eventually you will run out of available, qualified local talent and you will need to hire someone from a coastal tech hub. Only most Californians/New Yorkers don't want to move to Salt Lake City, or Oklahoma, or Houston, or anywhere else in the middle. The flag is the same but the culture is drastically different.
Regarding Houston, it's among the fastest growing cities in the US. People are moving there in droves from the coasts. It's also not even remotely as cheap as a lot of people think.
Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, the climate is not that great - we have both extremes (really host in the summer, and snow/ice in the winder), and I do really miss the beach - that is the #1 thing I miss about CA. Central Oklahoma is also fairly flat, so if you like mountains in the distance and a little colder climate, Boulder may be more your thing. The key for me is how much impact I can have here. I feel like Boulder already has a lot…
You left out being in Tornado Alley and otherwise nasty storms.
The good news is that at least Tornadoes come with plenty of warning (visible, audible, TV, radio, etc.).
Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities
#48I just did the SF --> DFW move this week. Housing is 10x cheaper so that tipped the pluses ahead of the minuses for me, and it's still a big city so you can find decent things to do outside of work. Have my own b2b company that I'm bootstrapping, so I realized I wasn't tied to SF anymore for any particular reason. Will be interesting to see how the next year goes!
Nice! I did the opposite about 2 years ago. Really wish I had bought some real estate in certain parts of Dallas but I was just starting out and didn't have the capital/guts. There are parts of Dallas that I love (lower greenville, deep ellum, oak cliff) that have really boomed these last two years.
The move to SF has been worth it, though, for my career/finances. Net was a little bit lower than what I could have been making in Dallas, but my bonus actually, fully paid out and I've gotten actually significant raises. Also, since housing costs were so high I decided to experiment with alternative living styles and I'm now actually spending less money in SF than I was in Dallas.
Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities
#49Man, I feel like I'm going to be really negative, I hope not, but here goes: OKC is undergoing an oil boom, the secondary effects of which are being reported in this article (IMO). My advice: come live in Oklahoma or Kansas if you actually like it here and want to be here for a long time, because when the boom dies, you'll find it harder to leave. Opportunities abound on the coasts. Texas, well, Texas is always a gre…
Even in Texas, you have to be careful when the boom ends. I was in Midland/Odessa about 10-12 years ago (before the current oil boom) and it was a tough place to live - lots of closed businesses. The drilling firms had stacks of pipe in their yards, instead of out in the oil fields being put to use. The folks who lived there were really down on their city, something you don't see all that often in Texas (how do you k…
You have to be careful where you are when the boom ends. Dallas weaned itself off oil money in the late 80s/early 90s; ExxonMobil's headquarters is the only major holdout. It turned itself into a headquarters town, and is now turning itself into America's datacenter and a minor tech hub. Austin has entrenched itself as a second-tier tech hub. San Antonio is a major Air Force tech hub. Houston, while awash in oil money, has non-oil shipping, finance, and NASA. Only west Texas is so dependent on oil that an oil bust would be a major economic calamity.
Re: Affordable Housing Draws Middle Class to Inland Cities
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even in Texas, you have to be careful when the boom ends. I was in Midland/Odessa about 10-12 years ago (before the current oil boom) and it was a tough place to live - lots of closed businesses. The drilling firms had stacks of pipe in their yards, instead of out in the oil fields being put to use. The folks who lived there were really down on their city, something you don't see all that often in Texas (how do you k…
> how do you know someone's a Texan? Don't worry, they'll tell you I never noticed this before, but I'm a Texan, and I do this.
Same joke also works for new yorkers