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Getting rid of burnout permanently

kentnguyen.com

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Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#41

Post by paulhauggis »

cylinder wrote: post #38
normloman wrote: post #22

Um... Not work so hard? I'm not a programmer, so I'm viewing the stuff on hacker news from outside the bubble, so to speak. And from here, y'all look crazy. To the average person, spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd, but you all discuss it like it's no big deal. Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul. People must be trained not to accept burnout as normal.

I'm not a programmer, but I burnout from being bored and unsatisfied with my work, I even get burnt out from feeling like I'm not doing enough. If I'm doing something engaging and exciting I'm more than happy to work long hours.

the problem is that there is really boring work in every project.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#42

Post by lightyrs »

YorkianTones wrote: post #20
danielweber wrote: post #3

Some companies see their employees as orange trees that they need to keep healthy year after year. Some companies see their employees as oranges they need to squeeze as much as possible.

There are doors. There are revolving doors.

There are doors that let you in

And out but never open

But there are trapdoors

That you can't come back from

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#43

Post by zz1 »

kelukelugames wrote: post #37
normloman wrote: post #22

Um... Not work so hard? I'm not a programmer, so I'm viewing the stuff on hacker news from outside the bubble, so to speak. And from here, y'all look crazy. To the average person, spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd, but you all discuss it like it's no big deal. Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul. People must be trained not to accept burnout as normal.

My company actively encourages people to not over work. The CEO shot down a nap room because it implies people should stay longer.

> shot down a nap room because it implies people should stay longer

True! Smart move: did it work?

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#44

Post by MrRage »

greggman wrote: post #31
normloman wrote: post #22

Um... Not work so hard? I'm not a programmer, so I'm viewing the stuff on hacker news from outside the bubble, so to speak. And from here, y'all look crazy. To the average person, spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd, but you all discuss it like it's no big deal. Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul. People must be trained not to accept burnout as normal.

I program because I love it. It's my hobby. I quit my job a 14 months ago. 5 months ago I thought of an idea I wanted to pursue. I've been spending 8-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week on it since then. I'm sorry you apparently picked a career you don't get real enjoyment from. Those of us that picked something we love don't see doing it a lot as a negative. We see it as just that, doing something we love.

Good to hear that you're happy and your choices have worked out, sincerely. But kindly please consider the following points:

1. You may not have worked enough to burn out. If you're in your 20's you can work longer too. If you don't have a family you can work longer.

2. Not everyone can make the career choices you got to make. I do program and enjoy it but it's way to risky for me personally to quit my corporate job. Please consider you might have some privileges others don't have or less responsibilities than other people.

3. For those of us who toil in the corporate world, depending on the situation, it is just foolish to spend more than the required 40 hours (except for limited crunch time). Why should I slave away and get no reward? I get paid the same. Consider that corporation might take advantage of those who do enjoy programming to do more work for less.

Anyway I wish you all the luck on your idea. :)

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#45

Post by sergiosgc »

normloman wrote: post #22

Um... Not work so hard? I'm not a programmer, so I'm viewing the stuff on hacker news from outside the bubble, so to speak. And from here, y'all look crazy. To the average person, spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd, but you all discuss it like it's no big deal. Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul. People must be trained not to accept burnout as normal.

There is another view. Programmers commonly have two characteristics that make them talk a lot about burnout:

a) They are analytical people. It comes with the job. You can't program if you don't think analytically, and this characteristic can't possibly be confined to work activities, so it gets ingrained into personality.

b) They like what they do. Naturally, this is not true for every individual, but is true for most. The reason is not that this is a paradise bubble. Much to the contrary: the profession is so taxing for individuals that don't like to code that it self selects "code lovers".

Individuals fitting this description know and actively quantify their productivity levels. They know that they perform better when everything is flowing, and they know when they're off their game. Thus, they are more prone to correctly identifying lower productivity on themselves, when compared to other professions. The result is more chatter about burnout.

This does not mean programmers burn out more than other professionals. It means programmers are more conscious of their own productivity.

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#46

Post by BSousa »

greggman wrote: post #31
normloman wrote: post #22

Um... Not work so hard? I'm not a programmer, so I'm viewing the stuff on hacker news from outside the bubble, so to speak. And from here, y'all look crazy. To the average person, spending extra hours at work with no overtime pay is absurd, but you all discuss it like it's no big deal. Your industry needs a huge cultural overhaul. People must be trained not to accept burnout as normal.

I program because I love it. It's my hobby. I quit my job a 14 months ago. 5 months ago I thought of an idea I wanted to pursue. I've been spending 8-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week on it since then. I'm sorry you apparently picked a career you don't get real enjoyment from. Those of us that picked something we love don't see doing it a lot as a negative. We see it as just that, doing something we love.

Let me know in 10 years, when you are 50 pounds heavier, have a distressed family life, stress, high blood pressure and back at a 9-5 doing crud apps for insurance companies how it feels then.

If we take the higher end of you statement (12*6) you are working 72 hours a week. Seriously, you aren't that productive (Studies show this) so you are just 'wasting' time anyway, if you don't have to be in an office to 'pretend' to work those hours, then get the fuck away from the screen

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#47

Post by enraged_camel »

The author's theory is that burnout is caused by not doing the things one loves.

I have a different, albeit perhaps related theory: burnout is caused by not being able to get in the "flow" for extended periods of time.

I can relate to the author's example of having split duties involving coding and not coding, as I'm in the same boat. About half of my week involves developing my company's learning management system, and the other half involves going to meetings about various training activities that are hosted on the system. The latter part is what causes burnout, because the meetings are spread out through the day and totally disrupt my flow. No matter how hard I have tried, I haven't been able to block out large, uninterrupted chunks. As a result, I find myself in these situations where just as I'm about to get in the zone, I get a reminder that says "meeting in 15 minutes!"

It has reached a point where I started looking for other jobs. Anyone need a Rails developer? :(

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#49

Post by reitanqild »

Isn't burnout originally something way worse than exhausted and demotivated? Examples:

I burnt out once, it left me crying everytime I where alone and took me months to get through the first phase. Anything that reminded me about the old job, e.g. a faulty drive-train, could trigger stomach pain etc. It took 5 full years before I was really myself again even though I studied and had normal jobs during those years.

I have seen a couple of friends and colleagues go through the same. One of them was a promising technician who had to leave it.

Whenever I read articles like this I wonder if we are talking about the same kind of burnout? (And yes, English is not my first language.)

Re: Getting rid of burnout permanently

#50

Post by pessimizer »

127001brewer wrote: post #16

Why do we work? Let's say that for most people following Hacker News, it's because their work matters to them; and, for others, it's just a paycheck. Because of these differing work attitudes, you will see some expression of "burnout" (or some other work-related unhappiness). Keeping in mind these differences can help, but it won't solve this fundamental difference within a team.

>Let's say that for most people following Hacker News, it's because their work matters to them; and, for others, it's just a paycheck.

I read Hacker News, and I work just for a paycheck. If I weren't working for the paycheck, I'd expect to have to pay my employers.

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