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Programmer to Manager

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41–45 of 45 posts

Re: Programmer to Manager

#41
IMO, 2-3 years is too soon. You might be pigeon-holed as a manager for future jobs. I guess you can always craft a resume to emphasize your hands-on technical experience though.

Maybe management is what you want? If so go for it. But your tone suggests you have reservations about this, so I'd suggest you ask to remain engineer and then after 5-10 years doing that, re-evaluate your desire for management.

Also, I'd be inherently skeptical of a place that moves you to management after 2 years of experience. That means they generally have non-technical managers. I think managers should be the senior engineers who also have people skills and like managing.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#42
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some extent I think this type of experience is almost a rite of passage as developers become increasingly senior. I've had experiences along these lines as have most of my more seasoned colleagues. Management sounds OK from a distance, but when devs realize the kind of petty idiocy that will now dictate their daily life, it's normal to start running back to the compiler. This may not be true in companies where eng…

Thanks for this post. Can you drill into a little bit what you mean by "campaigning" though? Do you just mean constantly lobbying people in your organization to gather support for process changes, new programs, initiatives etc. that you want to sponsor?

No, the problem is believing that it's about important things like programs, processes, and initiatives. The reality is most people can't and don't want to understand that type of stuff. That doesn't just apply to MBAs, it applies even to most of the people in your department. You'll become their enemy if you go in there and start advocating all but the most minor and gradual changes (even this is dangerous). Consultants are paid to operate outside of the political structure, not employees. If you want to recommend changes and get ignored, do it as a consultant because you'll be better paid and have less stress in doing so, since you'd be ignored as an employee too but you'd also be collecting personal political enmity.

If you want to be an employee, you have to play politics. You have to be campaigning for yourself. As an employee, you are your product, your brand, and you're supplying it to the customer, your employer. For the same reasons that front-line customer service representatives for retailers and phone companies have to go all day biting their tongues, you also must do so as a front-line representative of your personal brand. It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter what is or isn't better or worse. Nobody wants to hear it and nobody cares. Some people may say they're hiring you for your opinion on things like that -- those people are lying, don't believe them. They just want you to coo gently to them and give them whatever they want, or a close enough approximation thereof that they can't really tell the difference.

You have to always be the nice, self-sacrificing guy who doesn't make any waves but is just so grateful for anything and everything and always go the triple-extra mile to help out. The guy who is always taking his co-workers to lunch because he appreciates them that much. The one with the "charisma", the "flair", and the "charm". In short, the sycophant, just barely non-obviously. That is how influence is aggregated.

As an employee, your productive output is secondary to successfully running a personal campaign. You do all the schmoozing, make all the power plays and all the disingenuous convenience connections you would if you were running for a real political office, basically the whole shebang except the posters. As long as you kinda-sorta look like you're doing some actual work somewhere under the covers, it doesn't matter if you actually are or not. What matters is that you become that guy. If you are employed, your real job is selling yourself to your colleagues (mostly superiors, the further up the chain you can get known and get positive attention the better). Devote 75% of your energy to this task and 25% or less of your energy into whatever you were actually hired to do and you'll go far.

This is geared toward employment in general, but it's 50x more important if you're in a management or leadership position, because at that point you don't really have a real job to divert any energy toward anymore anyway.

There are some companies where this is so expected that your continued employment is jeopardized if you don't do it (like my previous employer), and other companies where you'll just be passed up for advancements and go unnoticed if you don't do it (like my present employer). There's not really a third type of company excepting very small startups, which is usually not the kind of place someone looking to be employed would wind up.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And with only 2 years of programming its unlikely that you will have developed enough soft people skills.

I'd argue that these skills are only tangentially related. Despite what others experiences are with MBA types, one of my best managers ever was a very smart recent MBA grad with no programming experience. He cared deeply for the team, set up growth paths for everyone that wanted them, acted as a crap umbrella when shit hit the fan, praised publicly and provided very constructive criticism in private.

was this a proper MBA ie 35 or so with a decade or more of work experience before doing their MBA.

A lot of people seem to do BS/BA->MBA with no work experience prior to the MBA as away of dodging immigration hassles

Re: Programmer to Manager

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that these skills are only tangentially related. Despite what others experiences are with MBA types, one of my best managers ever was a very smart recent MBA grad with no programming experience. He cared deeply for the team, set up growth paths for everyone that wanted them, acted as a crap umbrella when shit hit the fan, praised publicly and provided very constructive criticism in private.

was this a proper MBA ie 35 or so with a decade or more of work experience before doing their MBA. A lot of people seem to do BS/BA->MBA with no work experience prior to the MBA as away of dodging immigration hassles

Straight out of school. Hour was at least a year younger than I was.

Re: Programmer to Manager

#45

It depends what you want to do but as a manager I'd like to say a few things I found making the move: 1) It's obviously very different. It's primarily about organisation and co-ordination - you need to understand all the moving parts of a project, know what's important, what might need your attention and what can be left alone. You might want to ask yourself whether after 3 years experience you feel you're equipped t…

Completely correct on all points. When I was a programmer, I would sit and stew about the decisions management made. I was deluded into thinking "I would do this different". Moving into management and realizing that it is a totally different role of planning, organization and coordination - all of which isn't really in your control. After having been a manager for a few years now, I realize my tech skills have degrad…

Yep, development manager / development project manager is actually an odd half way house. It's still basically a delivery role, working closely with developers and the product, but it's the last time that's really true. Beyond that when you start managing managers, things start becoming somewhat more abstract and that's where things really change.
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