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Diversity and Startups

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Diversity and Startups

#41

Post by staunch »

What about class?

Ivy League Parents -> Private School -> SAT tutoring -> Ivy League College -> Investment by Ivy League VC -> Acquired by Ivy League Tech Company

vs

Poor parents -> Shitty Public School -> High School Drop Out -> Programmer at Ivy League Tech Company (maybe)

There's a reason most of the big tech companies are from Ivy League graduates.

And you can't ignore how many successful startups only happened because parental financial support. Someone working paycheck to paycheck to pay for college isn't going to have a reading week to hack with. Or can't borrow $40k from their parents. Or live at home for free.

The game is ultimately fair - even a dog could get funded with traction. But there really is a class system in the U.S. and it is probably the biggest bias in the system.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#42

Post by morgante »

jfc wrote: post #30

On some level, the tech world isn't living up to its own principles, as it relates to diversity and inclusion (D&I). Many seem to view D&I as being somewhat external to the tech space--it's an issue that other industries have been discussing and is becoming more prominent in tech. I would posit that the underlying principles of the tech world share a number of core values with D&I. Think about the open source softwar…

I wholeheartedly agree, yet certain people continually attach open source as somehow being the worst of our industry. Just because it requires people be passionate enough about development to do it in their free time.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#43

Post by harryh »

tzs wrote: post #40
harryh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the evidence that sexism is a more tractable problem than racism? Just curious...

If someone doesn't want to consider women for a job, it probably means that they think women have some inherent unsuitableness for that particular job. They aren't aggressive enough for sales, or don't have the upper body strength for landscaping, or some such. They don't mind hiring women for jobs that they think women can do (secretary). They probably have women friends, date or marry women, and so on. If someone d…

That's certainly a reasonable hypothesis. Is there evidence that supports it?

Re: Diversity and Startups

#44

Post by incision »

sama wrote: post #17
_pius wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's really hard to address everything in one post, and i think the issues around gender and race in tech are pretty different. Sure, but you clearly didn't call the piece "Gender and Startups" or "Sexism and Startups." Presumably the broader title was chosen deliberately. For instance, I'd push back on an essay called "YC and Startups" if it only mentioned one company in one batch, but with a quick token sentence ab…

we shared the stats on founders born outside the US. it's not a perfect map to race, but it's not a bad one either--there are people of all colors in this YC batch. do you really think we are trying to "score points for 'addressing diversity'"? i had an early draft titled "sexism and startups", but many people pointed out the last 7 paragraphs apply to racial minorities just as much as women.

>"we shared the stats on founders born outside the US. it's not a perfect map to race, but it's not a bad one either."

It's pretty well established that there are lots of people who were born outside the US in tech in general [1] and among founders specifically [2].

Simply noting the same isn't necessarily saying anything.

>"there are people of all colors in this YC batch."

That's great.

Seeing numbers broken out by ethnicity would be a lot more interesting as it would facilitate a more direct comparison to the rest of the recent releases on diversity.

1: http://www.technologyreview.com/news/516546/silicon-valley-f...

2: http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/immigration-and...

Re: Diversity and Startups

#45

Post by lliwta »

morgante wrote: post #42
jfc wrote: post #30

On some level, the tech world isn't living up to its own principles, as it relates to diversity and inclusion (D&I). Many seem to view D&I as being somewhat external to the tech space--it's an issue that other industries have been discussing and is becoming more prominent in tech. I would posit that the underlying principles of the tech world share a number of core values with D&I. Think about the open source softwar…

I wholeheartedly agree, yet certain people continually attach open source as somehow being the worst of our industry. Just because it requires people be passionate enough about development to do it in their free time.

To be fair, github culture is a far cry from the early days of open source.

If I didn't run in with the first/second generation of OSS developers, I probably wouldn't like the culture either.

Now get off my lawn!

Re: Diversity and Startups

#46

Post by danielweber »

harryh wrote: post #18
_pius wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's really hard to address everything in one post, and i think the issues around gender and race in tech are pretty different. Sure, but you clearly didn't call the piece "Gender and Startups" or "Sexism and Startups." Presumably the broader title was chosen deliberately. For instance, I'd push back on an essay called "YC and Startups" if it only mentioned one company in one batch, but with a quick token sentence ab…

What's the evidence that sexism is a more tractable problem than racism? Just curious...

In the short term (meaning a few generations) even very sexist people tend to have kids of the opposite sex, while racists seldom have kids of another race.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#47

Post by Permit »

minimaxir wrote: post #9
Permit wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have no way to tell if they're being flagged by users or setting off the automated system for detecting flamewars. One of the problems with the topic is that essentially every Hacker News reader feels as though they're qualified to comment on the topic. This translates into massive nested threads that blow up with people arguing the same points. I'm not convinced that discussion of these issues on Hacker News does…

About a year ago, a friend wrote a good post about diversity in hackathons which was submitted to HN and hit #2 quickly, then dropped down to the second page in an instant: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6495950 Not many people commented on it. I believe the flame-war detector only takes significant effect when # comments > # points, which is a pretty good heuristic for a flame war that has gone out of control.

Haha it's funny that you've cited that post as I'm complaining that it's getting flagged in the comments... I guess the point is that HN is a black box to us regular users and it's tough to speculate on how and why threads move as they do.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#48

Post by gizmo »

[deleted] wrote: post #23
harryh wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the evidence that sexism is a more tractable problem than racism? Just curious...

[deleted]

I'm not sure what you're hinting at with your remark about racial disparities with regard to education, IQ and culture. Right now your comment looks pretty racist.

Re: Diversity and Startups

#49

Post by lliwta »

NaitJones wrote: post #28
sama wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's really hard to address everything in one post, and i think the issues around gender and race in tech are pretty different. (we did include a stat on international founders, many of which are not white.) i don't think we're playing this on "easy mode", but i'm sorry you feel that way.

Let me first say, as someone with two children, both girls, I really appreciate the efforts that are going into making CS careers an accessible option for them, and that includes your post and the sentiment behind it. Kudos to you! What continues to irk me is the almost a disregard for black males when discussing diversity. There isn't a single group less represented in CS than AA males and there isn't a single group…

I'm so glad to see this post! You hit the nail on the head.

> Black men are being left out of another generation of wealth creation and we need to stem (excuse the pun) the tide of that now.

What's your suggestion, other than the normal stuff (engaging with students in HS etc)?

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