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NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

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Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always curious to hear people talk about "alter the course of society" or "change culture" or whatever, what they think that means. What does the NSA think is the "course" of things? Because ultimately, I see it as a tautology: the course is whatever it is, it is whatever the aggregate of its constituents make it. So please, tell us NSA, what prescience do you have to know what it should and shouldn't be?

To the NSA, the course of society is what the government wants.

Consider this. NSA are the ones who are providing intelligence reports to the different parts of the government. They very likely employ a number of psychologist and sociologists. (I can not verify this, it's just a morbid hunch.)

What is there to prevent them from biasing (or slanting) the intelligence so that they continously keep nudging the perceptions of those reading the reports? The names for this are numerous; thought influence, advertising, even brain washing in extreme cases.

Or in other words - for the NSA, the course of society may well be what they can make the government want.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#42

The depressing part for me is that I've started to consider what I search for on a daily basis and how that might look...essentially they are starting to make me paranoid. Over the last few months I've googled Numerous Weapon Systems (I have a fascination with WW1, WWII and Cold War history - stuff like Black Arrow etc). Insurgencies during the British Empire Electronics (want to get back into and saw a fun project t…

A few months ago, I spend a good hour or so googling and reading about Anthrax strains, dispersal, etc. after seeing something about it on TV and getting curious.

I realised afterwards it might look a tad suspicious if NSA/GCHQ/etc. picked up on it. Oh well.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#43
post #35

The depressing part for me is that I've started to consider what I search for on a daily basis and how that might look...essentially they are starting to make me paranoid. Over the last few months I've googled Numerous Weapon Systems (I have a fascination with WW1, WWII and Cold War history - stuff like Black Arrow etc). Insurgencies during the British Empire Electronics (want to get back into and saw a fun project t…

You're nuts if you think there's significant overlap between yours and the activities of the people responsible for things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_20...

Don't tell me, tell the intelligence services as they are the ones who don't know that.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#44
post #27

if I was the NSA I probably would target my own employees first as they have the most power to take me down

Your employees have probably already been screened as risk averse nerds without a social life outside of the near area. Sure, you'd monitor their movements and those of their family members, but statistically it'd be unlikely they'd move too far from a pretty boring norm. After all, they're prohibited from visiting interesting countries and are probably watched or flagged if they visit even other US states. Is it unlikely that their movements are not routinely monitored by cellular site presence and/or numberplate recognition?

I think you would target high ranking politicians... because the option to blackmail them ensures you an uninterrupted and growing black budget.

You would target communications businesses... because compromising a properly placed employee grants you access to the sum total of customer and peer communications through their networks.

You would target media... because a jump on a popular change in public sentiment is very actionable intelligence, both to multiply funding (through investments prior to predictable market response), and to further control politics.

You would target diplomats... both for tradition's sake, and because borders are the most easily grasped us-and-them (divisive) tool in the post 20th century semantic playground, giving you options for powerful public sentiment manipulation through selective media generation. However, realistically for most embassies worth their salt you'd know these groups are largely not going to do anything remotely surprising that you can pin to them through pervasive communications intelligence gathering.

Probably also, you would target multinationals, because almost all of them are doing something dodgy, somewhere, and that gives you tremendous leeway for behavioral modification.

But in reality, the majority of these can be monitored very effectively on an automated basis with near zero effort once you have full visibility of various domestic financial networks, the SWIFT international financial network, credit and debit card networks, electronic information on intended travel (passenger name records) and border crossing (whoops! I-lost-my ... new passport number, anyone?), and the public switched telephone network.

Email, social network and general web use are cute extras, and probably greatly useful just for delving in to people's character and actions, communicative profiling (grammar, typing style, languages known), interest profiling, waking hour and social network profiling (beyond just phones), etc. But I don't think it's necessary to go to that point most of the time ... the broad metrics are already available and probably extremely reliable unless people are making a concerted effort to bypass dragnet surveillance activity. (eg. By avoiding all of the above networks... damn hard these days, it would seem, for any length of time)

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#45
post #35

The depressing part for me is that I've started to consider what I search for on a daily basis and how that might look...essentially they are starting to make me paranoid. Over the last few months I've googled Numerous Weapon Systems (I have a fascination with WW1, WWII and Cold War history - stuff like Black Arrow etc). Insurgencies during the British Empire Electronics (want to get back into and saw a fun project t…

You're nuts if you think there's significant overlap between yours and the activities of the people responsible for things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_20...

So the NSA is nuts then? Because that's what this leak seems to be implying.

I have some pretty strange internet searches as well, but the cat is already out of the bag on that one I guess.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the interesting post, as I mentioned in the first post I have a fascination for 19th and 20th century history and the parallels to some of it are horribly stark (so stark in fact I can't believe that the people in power haven't spotted them which leaves me with "this is what they want"). Secret courts, no right to due process, no right to face your accuser, the presumption of guilt on political grounds, se…

But if you delve into that history even more, you'll note that it was accompanied by a pervasive sense of dread and fear even amongst those who were not being persecuted. In Nazi Germany, for instance, it was not just the Jews who lived in terror of the Stasi (edit: mixed up my history, not Stasi, but the "death squads" -- the Stasi came after the war, but even more feared), but all German citizens in general. The re…

> People who draw parallels between the actions of today's intelligence agencies and the agencies of oppression of yesteryear uniformly miss out on this key difference.

Except that sense of dread doesn't come into place instantly it will lag behind the apparatus that causes the dread.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#47
post #38

Another repeat of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7983124 And to repeat: the config file available from http://daserste.ndr.de/panorama/xkeyscorerules100.txt says: /* These variables define terms and websites relating to the TAILs (The Amnesic Incognito Live System) software program, a comsec mechanism advocated by extremists on extremist forums. */ Linux Journal is listed there, as a ‘website relating to TAILS’…

specifically:

    // START_DEFINITION
    /*
    These variables define terms and websites relating to the TAILs (The Amnesic
    Incognito Live System) software program, a comsec mechanism advocated by
    extremists on extremist forums.
    */

    $TAILS_terms=word('tails' or 'Amnesiac Incognito Live System') and word('linux'
    or ' USB ' or ' CD ' or 'secure desktop' or ' IRC ' or 'truecrypt' or ' tor ');
    $TAILS_websites=('tails.boum.org/') or ('linuxjournal.com/content/linux*');
    // END_DEFINITION
... assuming this file is even what it purports to be.

I understand Hacker News users aren't likely to think critically when it comes to stories about the NSA but you would expect more of them could actually read code.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the interesting post, as I mentioned in the first post I have a fascination for 19th and 20th century history and the parallels to some of it are horribly stark (so stark in fact I can't believe that the people in power haven't spotted them which leaves me with "this is what they want"). Secret courts, no right to due process, no right to face your accuser, the presumption of guilt on political grounds, se…

But if you delve into that history even more, you'll note that it was accompanied by a pervasive sense of dread and fear even amongst those who were not being persecuted. In Nazi Germany, for instance, it was not just the Jews who lived in terror of the Stasi (edit: mixed up my history, not Stasi, but the "death squads" -- the Stasi came after the war, but even more feared), but all German citizens in general. The re…

The time to stop a totalitarian police state is _before_ it becomes a totalitarian police state. It gets a lot harder to stop afterwards.

Re: NSA classifies Linux Journal readers as extremists

#50
post #23
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is one way that thought control works. Religion uses this, "don't think naughty thoughts, God will record it and you'll pay for it later". NSA is God except that NSA exists and is real. Here your search is a bit like your thoughts. Any of those things you listed, possibly could have landed you on the "naughty list". So now you start to really worry about what you search for. If you can't research or find info ab…

"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." -- Cardinal Richelieu

That quote, and the mentality behind it, used to drive me to obsessively parse my language to avoid having something twisted out of context. Since then I've realized those efforts are largely for naught: anyone who would judge you based on six lines lacks the compassion or wisdom that would merit giving any weight to their judgment, anyone who twists your words and is powerful enough to do so won't be hindered by your care in trying to avoid it.

I think the real lesson in there is to be slow to judge and not let others suck you into joining the outrage mob based on thin arguments or weak evidence.

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