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How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

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Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#41

Post by ghaff »

bignaj wrote: post #38
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metro/ST isn't that bad, I take it rather than rent a car when in Seattle, but I don't venture out of the West Seattle-Seattle-Bellevue core where service is pretty good.

Yeah, but you don't have to deal with it every single day. Metro offers pretty horrendous bus service especially considering their cost per passenger one of the highest in the country. Recently voters thwacked a measure seeking more funding for Metro and one of the main reasons I think (among others like aversion to car tab expenses) was anger at mismanagement.

My experience is that everybody (where everybody is defined as a significant majority but not everyone) tends to be at least fairly negative about public transportation that they're forced to use day in and day out. I could name a number of cities that I consider to have pretty good transit if you're going from the right point A to the right point B where I could still imagine it being pretty tiresome using it all the time for a variety of reasons.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#42

Post by ghaff »

jseliger wrote: post #14

Will metro residents give up their cars? I wonder if the rise of Uber will affect this. When I lived in Seattle, I noticed that a lot of people didn't commute to work via car but had one anyway, usually for one or two trips per week. Public transportation (buses and later light rail) were pretty good from about 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. or so during weekdays but were horrible the rest of the time. Bikes could be used intermit…

Maybe at the margins where Zipcar also has an effect. But even if you pretty much stick to an urban core during the week--which tends to become less true as friends and other activities move out to the suburbs--even just dealing with rentals for weekends can start to become a real pain.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#43

Post by davidw »

abduhl wrote: post #34
jseliger wrote: post #14

Will metro residents give up their cars? I wonder if the rise of Uber will affect this. When I lived in Seattle, I noticed that a lot of people didn't commute to work via car but had one anyway, usually for one or two trips per week. Public transportation (buses and later light rail) were pretty good from about 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. or so during weekdays but were horrible the rest of the time. Bikes could be used intermit…

The mountain states are car states. Denver is not a city like New York where people go without getting their license until they are in their mid-20s. Having Uber or great public transportation will not change the fact that much of the draw of Colorado is that you can drive two hours and end up in the mountains or on the plains. Colorado self-selects for cars and they will not be going away any time soon.

I agree with your statement, but "you can drive two hours and end up in the mountains or on the plains." - why would anyone drive two hours to be out on the plains?!

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#44

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bignaj wrote: post #38
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metro/ST isn't that bad, I take it rather than rent a car when in Seattle, but I don't venture out of the West Seattle-Seattle-Bellevue core where service is pretty good.

Yeah, but you don't have to deal with it every single day. Metro offers pretty horrendous bus service especially considering their cost per passenger one of the highest in the country. Recently voters thwacked a measure seeking more funding for Metro and one of the main reasons I think (among others like aversion to car tab expenses) was anger at mismanagement.

I used it every day through much of the 90s. I used to commute to UW on the 372 from...Bothell, later to downtown Seattle from the U district a lot. Metro is at least way better than Community Transit.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#45

Post by vidarh »

julienchastang wrote: post #35
bri3d wrote: post #3

The Northwest suburbs (Boulder, Louisville, Lafayette, Broomfield, Longmont) got quite screwed over in this deal - we approved and paid into the 0.4% sales tax in 2004, but ended up with only years of disruptive highway construction leading to a privatized tollway and fake Bus Rapid Transit. We didn't even get real BRT as the buses run in the private toll lanes rather than their own grade and the buses board and debo…

Also longtime Boulder resident here. Yes, agreed 100%. Boulder and surrounding NW communities really got the shit end of the stick here. The phony BRT seems little different than what is in place now (just replace the ABX sign with BRT, and there you go), but something that we will probably have to live with for a generation at least. I don’t have high hopes for how the buses will perform during snow storms (unlike r…

> how the buses will perform during snow storms

Depends greatly on how well you treat the roads. I'm from Norway, and we have areas where you'll not be able to see over the snow when driving at certain times of winter, and keeping the buses running is usually not a big problem, as long as the roads gets cleared regularly.

> unlike rail which has fewer problems in inclement weather

... also depends on how prepared they are. I now live in the UK, and here a few cm of snow causes the train network to grind to a stand-still while they struggle to keep the track clear, while in Norway, the trains on many lines are equipped with snow-ploughs during the winter.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#46

Post by Jgrubb »

davidw wrote: post #43
abduhl wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mountain states are car states. Denver is not a city like New York where people go without getting their license until they are in their mid-20s. Having Uber or great public transportation will not change the fact that much of the draw of Colorado is that you can drive two hours and end up in the mountains or on the plains. Colorado self-selects for cars and they will not be going away any time soon.

I agree with your statement, but "you can drive two hours and end up in the mountains or on the plains. " - why would anyone drive two hours to be out on the plains?!

Because they're two hours into driving back home to Connecticut.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#47

Post by kissickas »

abduhl wrote: post #34
jseliger wrote: post #14

Will metro residents give up their cars? I wonder if the rise of Uber will affect this. When I lived in Seattle, I noticed that a lot of people didn't commute to work via car but had one anyway, usually for one or two trips per week. Public transportation (buses and later light rail) were pretty good from about 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. or so during weekdays but were horrible the rest of the time. Bikes could be used intermit…

The mountain states are car states. Denver is not a city like New York where people go without getting their license until they are in their mid-20s. Having Uber or great public transportation will not change the fact that much of the draw of Colorado is that you can drive two hours and end up in the mountains or on the plains. Colorado self-selects for cars and they will not be going away any time soon.

Let me offer a concurring opinion - Uber seems incredible expensive for two or three trips a week, from my experience. It works best when you're with a group of friends/family members and you are all drinking or don't feel like dealing with driving and parking. I would never consider it as an option like a normal cab for when I just need to do the week's grocery shopping or run out to get something at midnight, when the light rail might have shut down for the day. The only city where I ever used it was Denver, actually. Is this different from others' experiences?

As a side note - can't you drive two hours to a mountain from most East Coast cities? The Catskills are only 2.5 hours from NYC. I thought mountains were much more accessible in Denver than a two-hour car ride.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#48

Post by roycehaynes »

Downtown Denver resident here. I have to attest that the light-rail has been a tremendous win for Denver and surrounding area residents. Along with the bus system, Uber, and Car2Go, I started using light rail last December and never looked back. Even though there are hopeful plans to expand commuter rail to Boulder, I still think the FastTrack Program is a good decision. Boulder's been a stiffed by the new development but I can't imagine no commuter rail being implemented sooner than later.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#49

Post by roycehaynes »

roycehaynes wrote: post #48

Downtown Denver resident here. I have to attest that the light-rail has been a tremendous win for Denver and surrounding area residents. Along with the bus system, Uber, and Car2Go, I started using light rail last December and never looked back. Even though there are hopeful plans to expand commuter rail to Boulder, I still think the FastTrack Program is a good decision. Boulder's been a stiffed by the new developmen…

I have to counter some of the comments regarding buses and light rail being empty. This is completely untrue. People are using the light rail and buses in large sums. It has its off peaks but certainly before and after working hours is extremely busy. Most people who say their empty are likely the same folks not using public transportation. I had the same consensus before trying out RTD.

Re: How Denver Is Becoming the Most Advanced Transit City in the West

#50

Post by narrowrail »

kissickas wrote: post #47
abduhl wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mountain states are car states. Denver is not a city like New York where people go without getting their license until they are in their mid-20s. Having Uber or great public transportation will not change the fact that much of the draw of Colorado is that you can drive two hours and end up in the mountains or on the plains. Colorado self-selects for cars and they will not be going away any time soon.

Let me offer a concurring opinion - Uber seems incredible expensive for two or three trips a week, from my experience. It works best when you're with a group of friends/family members and you are all drinking or don't feel like dealing with driving and parking. I would never consider it as an option like a normal cab for when I just need to do the week's grocery shopping or run out to get something at midnight, when…

The mtns in CO are certainly closer to Denver than 2 hrs, but most people are going deeper into the mtns (e.g. Summit county/Vail/etc.). You can get up to 8500ft in 25min from Denver if you want. IMO, the further one gets from Denver, the nicer it is (I live about 8hrs from Denver in the mtns of CO, and have lived in the state for 20 yrs.).
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