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We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

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Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#41
post #8

Ad impressions don't work. Twitter & Facebook can't monetize. Facebook paid >20B for companies that don't sell ads.

The point is that the ads don't work for the advertisers; clearly, they've worked well for the platforms selling ads, e.g. Google.

Yes. The advertisers are more and more aware of that.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#42

This reminds me of a fascinating article in The New Yorker called "Twilight of the Brands." [0] The author's basic argument is that brands have historically filled an information gap. Before the Internet, when consumers didn't have tons of on-demand info about products, brands were a compass that pointed them in the right direction. If the last Sylvania TV you bought worked well, you might buy another one without hun…

Well, I have to say that there are many labels call themselves brands. And a brand is actually more like a notion in one's mind, if there is any, connecting the cognition and the outside world. It helps people quickly get their answers from their brain "HDD" without extra time/energy cost. We often call this "impression" or something like this. ad banner is just one of those channels to deliver the information to your target audience. It is a way to deliver your message to help build the notion in people's mind. So I think they are different things. Hope this helps.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#43
post #29
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah we do: Coca-cola <-- The product offers no value other than "brand". (Brand is advertising).

But is that advertising or just excellent distribution of product?

The two go had in hand. It's certainly a tribute to the breadth of Coca Cola's distribution that you can find it sold in ramshackle huts in the most-off-the beaten track overseas locations imaginable.

But it's the brand that makes the distribution network worthwhile, so people living on $2 per day who traditionally drink tea and eat an abundance of locally grown fresh fruit believe a 20 cent bottle of sugary water is a worthwhile luxury.

There's also a certain amount of effort that goes into persuading very different consumers that it's socially acceptable to mix that same blend of sugary water with mid-priced spirits or in cocktails at exclusive bars in the expensive cities.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#44
Ebay is known for very ineffective campaigns, which they tried to justify by publishing "papers". They basically claimed that the fact that search results exist, makes the advertising next to them mostly ineffective. There are so many issues with this argument, it is not even worth starting. But yeah this circle jerk has been going for a while. Also to claim that if it did not work them, it won't work for anyone else is a bit of an over generalization.

You will also find papers stating the exact opposite and how to get great returns and stuff. Everyone it seems gets a different experience from the same platform and then they justify it by publishing white papers. Just like anything else, it is never black and white. But black folks want everything to be black while white folks make fun of the black.

Also check this more detailed analysis that goes a bit deeper: http://www.wordstream.com/blog/ws/2013/03/13/dear-ebay-its-n...

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#46
post #23

This reminds me of a fascinating article in The New Yorker called "Twilight of the Brands." [0] The author's basic argument is that brands have historically filled an information gap. Before the Internet, when consumers didn't have tons of on-demand info about products, brands were a compass that pointed them in the right direction. If the last Sylvania TV you bought worked well, you might buy another one without hun…

I understand the point he is making, and I agree that the importance of advertising is declining. However, I wouldn't be able to explain Samsung's success without looking at advertising.

If that were mostly attributable to advertising, I think you would see an equivalent success built on a horizontal brand - that is, an OEM without Samsung's vertical integration.

Otherwise an equally valid conjecture is that Samsung bought-in to the idea that the only way to consolidate success is through establishing a brand. As Intel did, for example. But I don't think anyone could argue that Samsung's ad campaigns are mostly cost-effective, coherent, and well-targeted. In other words, I don't think one can articulate a set of hypotheses that links the vast majority of Samsung's ad spending to Samsung's market success.

Contrarywise, there is a pretty good theory that Samsung succeeded in PCs, before they cranked up the ad spending, by being vertically integrated in almost all high-value components except CPUs.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#47
They're a bit vague when describing the "I-was-going-to-buy-it-anyway" problem, but it sounds like they're mainly talking about PPC ads on search engines stealing from SEO links on the same pages. (Some of it seems to be talking about stealing sales from the direct channel, which I have no idea how to handle.)

If your website is already tracking ad performance on a per-ad basis (i.e., tracking all the clicks on that ad, and keeping what you pay per click below what you're getting per click), then optimizing for only the paid search traffic that's incremental, and not cannibalistic, is pretty straight-forward, conceptually.

For a given ad's keyword, instead of optimizing only for the results you get from PPC traffic, you treat your PPC bid as an input that affects sales across PPC and SEO traffic for that keyword, and optimize accordingly.

There are a few extra steps and decisions that need to be made before full implementation, but this is the basic idea. It's actually not too bad to account for.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#48
post #19

I remember reading the tobacco industry was actually secretly grateful when the EU banned them from advertising. As I remember it, they were in a stale-mate. The market was pretty much divided up. Most people were loyal to their brand and that was that. Despite that, they were spending a massive amount of money on advertising even though their market shares remained unchanged. The reason was that if one of them stopp…

NB, while tobacco ads are banned from TV, they are still everywhere on outdoor advertising, at least here in Germany. Actually, I went on a "street art tour" that turned out to be sponsored by a cigarette company, and they were handing out free cigarettes. So: tobacco advertising is alive and well in Germany.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#49
post #19

I remember reading the tobacco industry was actually secretly grateful when the EU banned them from advertising. As I remember it, they were in a stale-mate. The market was pretty much divided up. Most people were loyal to their brand and that was that. Despite that, they were spending a massive amount of money on advertising even though their market shares remained unchanged. The reason was that if one of them stopp…

In the branding world, the general philosphy is that PR and word of mouth build brands and advertising defends brands and market share.

In your theory, if advertising stopped existing the world would save a ton of money and everyone would maintain market share... but since brands are built on PR and Word of Mouth, brands will always be at risk if they can't advertise and keep you on the forefront of their mind.

They might not lose market share to other big brands, but new brands with a fresh positioning will be able to uproot their position.

Re: We Have No Idea If Online Ads Work

#50
post #23

This reminds me of a fascinating article in The New Yorker called "Twilight of the Brands." [0] The author's basic argument is that brands have historically filled an information gap. Before the Internet, when consumers didn't have tons of on-demand info about products, brands were a compass that pointed them in the right direction. If the last Sylvania TV you bought worked well, you might buy another one without hun…

I understand the point he is making, and I agree that the importance of advertising is declining. However, I wouldn't be able to explain Samsung's success without looking at advertising.

Really? I could just as easily explain their success to an insane amount of press coverage.
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