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Be Nice Or Leave

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Re: Be Nice Or Leave

#41

Post by [deleted] »

song wrote: post #39
rayiner wrote: post #31

Here's the thing about being not nice: you can usually get away with it if you're really exceptional, but if you ever misstep, nobody will want to help you out, and some may gleefully put the screws to you. Just in the last couple of years, a couple of acquaintances that had a reputation for being not nice have stumbled career-wise, and unsurprisingly no one was there to lend a hand. Honestly, I was shocked how littl…

That's what I really hope when I think of an employee who screwed me completely over after I gave him a chance and spent a lot of time training him... But from the last news I've heard being a snake has been very successful for him and he's landed a high position in the new company where he works (taking over the guy who hired him). I hope one day it all catches to him but I'm not hopeful.. I just wish the world work…

[deleted]

Re: Be Nice Or Leave

#42

Post by DarkTree »

song wrote: post #39
rayiner wrote: post #31

Here's the thing about being not nice: you can usually get away with it if you're really exceptional, but if you ever misstep, nobody will want to help you out, and some may gleefully put the screws to you. Just in the last couple of years, a couple of acquaintances that had a reputation for being not nice have stumbled career-wise, and unsurprisingly no one was there to lend a hand. Honestly, I was shocked how littl…

That's what I really hope when I think of an employee who screwed me completely over after I gave him a chance and spent a lot of time training him... But from the last news I've heard being a snake has been very successful for him and he's landed a high position in the new company where he works (taking over the guy who hired him). I hope one day it all catches to him but I'm not hopeful.. I just wish the world work…

It may be likely that if the world did work like that, he wouldn't be such a snake. People are conditioned to think that stepping on other people to get ahead is the only way to be successful. In that sense, I too wish the world worked like that, because then we would have a lot less snakes.

Re: Be Nice Or Leave

#43

Post by y4mi »

song wrote: post #39
rayiner wrote: post #31

Here's the thing about being not nice: you can usually get away with it if you're really exceptional, but if you ever misstep, nobody will want to help you out, and some may gleefully put the screws to you. Just in the last couple of years, a couple of acquaintances that had a reputation for being not nice have stumbled career-wise, and unsurprisingly no one was there to lend a hand. Honestly, I was shocked how littl…

That's what I really hope when I think of an employee who screwed me completely over after I gave him a chance and spent a lot of time training him... But from the last news I've heard being a snake has been very successful for him and he's landed a high position in the new company where he works (taking over the guy who hired him). I hope one day it all catches to him but I'm not hopeful.. I just wish the world work…

i know i shouldn't judge with this small amount of info, but still...

you normally aren't paying an employee in training even close to the normal rate in the profession. which is obviously correct, but makes the argument that the employee screwed the employer by leaving after the the training kinda strange.

Re: Be Nice Or Leave

#44

Post by matwood »

sejje wrote: post #28
matwood wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you and I are in a meeting and you throw out an idea. Would you rather me a) call you a fucking idiot without even thinking through what you said and move on or b) explain why I don't agree with your idea and let you clarify? Even if the idea had zero merit, it is still in my long term interest to talk it through with you if I want you fully engaged on the team. The idea could be a teaching moment or even lead to…

That's a ridiculous way to make a point. Being blunt and calling someone a "fucking idiot" are not the same thing.

You're right that I was projecting my personal experiences. The people who I have worked with who called themselves blunt and honest were the same people who never defended an idea and instead resorted to calling everyone else idiots.

Saying you are blunt is often a way to sound superior or right when being rude to someone. Very few problems are as straight forward as 1+1=2, which is easy to state bluntly. Most problems though are more nuanced than that, and I have personally found that people who like to think themselves superior to others like to hide behind words like honest and blunt.

Re: Be Nice Or Leave

#45

Post by corobo »

thisone wrote: post #30
upthedale wrote: post #10

This was one of my key take-aways from Dale Carnegie's classic, 'How to Win Friends and Influence People'. I've seen it mentioned on various reading lists for those wanting to go into the business world too. Funny thing is, when recommending it to a friend, they mistakenly assumed from the title that it was a book of underhand tactics, which couldn't really be further from the truth. There's a lot to be said for bein…

I think How to Win Friends is one of those books that you (you being someone in the supermajority of people who isn't naturally gifted at interpersonal relationships) know you should read but you avoid it. Then one day, you are desperate and you read it and wonder "my God why didn't I read this sooner!"

I've avoided it for so long as it does look like it's either a manipulation guidebook or a social skills for dummies book. Your comment has convinced me to give it a go :)

Re: Be Nice Or Leave

#46

Post by benihana »

song wrote: post #39
rayiner wrote: post #31

Here's the thing about being not nice: you can usually get away with it if you're really exceptional, but if you ever misstep, nobody will want to help you out, and some may gleefully put the screws to you. Just in the last couple of years, a couple of acquaintances that had a reputation for being not nice have stumbled career-wise, and unsurprisingly no one was there to lend a hand. Honestly, I was shocked how littl…

That's what I really hope when I think of an employee who screwed me completely over after I gave him a chance and spent a lot of time training him... But from the last news I've heard being a snake has been very successful for him and he's landed a high position in the new company where he works (taking over the guy who hired him). I hope one day it all catches to him but I'm not hopeful.. I just wish the world work…

The last sentence of your comment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZjOk2G80GM#t=77

Re: Be Nice Or Leave

#48

Post by jacquesm »

comrade1 wrote: post #25
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #16

Sounds very American; like the server in a resteraunt being overly nice, making those of us who aren't used to the wallmart greeter style uncomfortable. Cut the bull; I would rather people be more honest than be more nice (and if they are trying too hard, it's easy to tell). It's amazing how a bit of bluntness automatically influences me and how much niceness projection makes me sick.

What you say reminds of what I've experienced as an American that now lives in Europe (Switzerland). Soon after moving I learned to not smile so much - I was told that it makes me look simpleminded. Especially in meetings, and especially in meetings with German clients. Meetings are serious and very efficient here. I don't even smile at the beginning during introductions. I also learned that the German-style of an em…

On average I would agree with you but you should definitely allow for huge company-to-company variation.

Re: Be Nice Or Leave

#49

Post by song »

y4mi wrote: post #43
song wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I really hope when I think of an employee who screwed me completely over after I gave him a chance and spent a lot of time training him... But from the last news I've heard being a snake has been very successful for him and he's landed a high position in the new company where he works (taking over the guy who hired him). I hope one day it all catches to him but I'm not hopeful.. I just wish the world work…

i know i shouldn't judge with this small amount of info, but still... you normally aren't paying an employee in training even close to the normal rate in the profession. which is obviously correct, but makes the argument that the employee screwed the employer by leaving after the the training kinda strange.

In that case, he left with some of my customers contracts so that was the screwing over part... The training thing is the fact that I spent a lot of time training him hoping to do great things together and eventually making him a partner of my company.

Anyway, it's a long story....

Re: Be Nice Or Leave

#50

Post by palebluedot »

A saying that I heard a long time ago, that really stuck with me (both as a business owner, and from the flipside as a customer):

  You can shear a sheep many times, but you can skin it only once.
If you go in for the kill, and really take advantage of someone in a transaction (i.e, skin the sheep), that will likely signal the end of any (positive) transactions with that person, unless you have a monopoly or other such power. Even if they don't realize what you did at the time, eventually they will, and they will resent it.

But by just shearing the sheep, you are creating a sustainable profit / relationship with someone, that will have the potential to be repeat business.

This works on the customer side, as well - are you the sort of person that grinds away at every contract and transaction, so that the other side makes (almost) nothing? Well, you are walking the line of skinning that sheep...

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