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For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

usmarshals.gov

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Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#41

Post by Omniusaspirer »

jarrett wrote: post #13
Glyptodon wrote: post #9

This seems insane. Shouldn't it be cheaper and more efficient to just sell them on an exchange or something? (Over time, even, rather than all at once, obviously.) "Let's sell them all in blocks of 3000 and require a deposit of $200k to bid" ... yeah ...

If you were the US Marshals, would you entrust the government's money[1] to an unregulated Bitcoin exchange? [1] As to whether the government is morally, ethically, or legally entitled to the seized properties, I have no opinion. I don't know anything about the situation.

I'm not sure one could possibly argue that this is morally or ethically "right". Legally it's apparently a-ok though.

These coins were technically owned by all the people with accounts on the Silk Road and were not necessarily going to be used for illegal transactions. For all we know this is basically government stolen money from some guy who wanted to buy a sandwich with Bitcoin just for the laughs and to say he did.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#42

Post by egwor »

Alupis wrote: post #37
ssharp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a great look for the BitCoin market if you can buy in bulk at 75%.

Not really. Seized properties often sell for less than half of the market value... doesn't mean the property is worth half now... it means the government can't be bothered to take on the responsibility of selling the property at full retail -- ie. they just want to get rid of the assets and move on.

but it does show that bitcoins are NOT considered the same thing as cash. You would not see the case where JPY or GBP or EUR would be sold off at this level of discount...

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#43

Post by supergauntlet »

viraptor wrote: post #36

Could someone explain the logic behind the price drop? Is that related to the fact that those 30k will be sold below the standard price? For some reason it seems counter-intuitive for me, since the money connected to those coins have been already paid once (whether for mining them or via exchange). So in practice it's more like they've been actually paid for ~twice now, so the effect "should" be opposite.

It's possible they're trying to drive the price down.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#44

Post by praxeologist »

bsder wrote: post #35

It would be funnier if the bitcoin exchanges blocked those blockchains as having been permanently compromised. It would prevent the feds from having an incentive to seize bitcoins.

Doubt it, but I would love for it to happen. I see this as criminal theft by the USMS.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#46

Post by ansimionescu »

leorocky wrote: post #40
bsder wrote: post #35

It would be funnier if the bitcoin exchanges blocked those blockchains as having been permanently compromised. It would prevent the feds from having an incentive to seize bitcoins.

> It would prevent the feds from having an incentive to seize bitcoins. No it wouldn't. Law enforcement seizes to deprive criminals of gain from illicit activities, not to make a profit. They sell because they can. It also wouldn't be funny. The US Marshall's service is doing what it is supposed to. If you have problems with federal law enforcement try a country that lacks a professional police force.

I find it hilarious that someone had to explain this.

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#47

Post by SolarNet »

viraptor wrote: post #36

Could someone explain the logic behind the price drop? Is that related to the fact that those 30k will be sold below the standard price? For some reason it seems counter-intuitive for me, since the money connected to those coins have been already paid once (whether for mining them or via exchange). So in practice it's more like they've been actually paid for ~twice now, so the effect "should" be opposite.

That's an interesting understanding of how currency works. There is no currency connected to bitcoin. There is an exchange rate. Someone out there willing to give you X dollars for Y bitcoins. (Consider the concept of X dollars for Y barrels of gas, or Z oz of gold).

Money is used multiple times. The dollar you spend at the store is then split up and spent again, and again, and again. So the value of the whole currency is what is important, how much buying power the currency you have is based on how many dollars there are, what they can be spent for, how often they are spent, etc. By offering X dollars for Y bitcoins, what people really mean is: offering x% of all the dollars for y% of all the bitcoins.

This sale adds more bitcoins (because portions of the markets believed them unrecoverable, and they haven't been in circulation for a while), so Y bitcoins is now a smaller percentage of the whole buying power available for bitcoins, which means they are also worth less dollars. Similar effects are seen in fiat currency (like dollars) when more money is printed, it affects the money supply, and allows the government a modicum of control on inflation (when used correctly) but also can let the government to let inflation get out of control (re: most cases of Hyperinflation[1]).

The simpler explanation is simply: Because the supply of bitcoins went up, with a constant demand of bitcoins, the value goes down because more people are trying to sell them, and the price goes down due to competition etc (e.g. basic supply and demand).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation

Re: For Sale: 29,656.51306529 Bitcoins

#49

Post by sillysaurus3 »

viraptor wrote: post #36

Could someone explain the logic behind the price drop? Is that related to the fact that those 30k will be sold below the standard price? For some reason it seems counter-intuitive for me, since the money connected to those coins have been already paid once (whether for mining them or via exchange). So in practice it's more like they've been actually paid for ~twice now, so the effect "should" be opposite.

There is no logic. Searching for logic behind bitcoin's price is a fool's errand. You'll trick yourself into believing things that aren't true, because the price of bitcoin is determined by a small number of large players. Those large players enter or exit the market for any reason they feel like. It's gambling, plain and simple. News announcements serve as a trigger for the gamblers to initiate gambles (exit/enter the market).

Until bitcoin achieves a critical mass among both consumers and merchants, searching for reasons for a price drop or jump may as well be numerology.

The trouble with opinions about the price of bitcoin is that they're very hard to disprove, because no one is privy to the information that's causing the price fluctuations except the people causing the price fluctuations. But remember, that's my point: you won't ever know why the price rises or falls. It's beyond your knowledge, unless your friends include those who are actually moving the price.

Until the price of bitcoin is determined by more than a couple hundred people, you simply cannot reason about its price in any meaningful way. Even talking about "downward price pressure due to mining costs" is mistaken at this point. The price of bitcoin is a function of the whims of those couple hundred people.

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