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ProtonMail: End-to-end encrypted email

protonmail.ch

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Re: ProtonMail: End-to-end encrypted email

#41

Post by spacefight »

x1798DE wrote: post #36
spacefight wrote: post #29

I wonder how they will stand up against requests from the swiss government regarding lawful intercept access. Which, for larger providers is mandatory to participate in.

In true end-to-end encryption, this would probably not matter, since you can hand over all the encrypted e-mails you want and no one's going to be reading them unless they have your private keys. That said, the nature of in-browser crypto is such that they (or anyone who controls their servers) could intermittently change the JS code they are serving in such a way that it captures your private keys and decrypt all yo…

There is no true E2E if you run it inside a browser.

And even if it would be application based (PGP, S/MIME), it would still leak metadata like crazy.

With all the threat models, I come to the conclusion, that there is no real E2E possible _at_all. All known platforms have been compromised, either by lawful interception/state trojan means or by direct hacking.

Re: ProtonMail: End-to-end encrypted email

#42

Post by brute »

thecoffman wrote: post #13

> https://protonmail.ch/blog/protonmail-threat-model/ I'm always skeptical of browser/JS based crypto, but it is nice to see that they're at least upfront with the risks involved in doing such a thing. They probably downplay the risk of a MITM attack a little much, but otherwise I'm glad to see they're realistic about possible weaknesses of the platform.

Read the comments here[1] and have a guess how 'upfront' they were of the risks involved three weeks ago. Pay attention to the dates.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7757420

Re: ProtonMail: End-to-end encrypted email

#43

Post by conorgil145 »

duaneb wrote: post #31
Xylakant wrote: post #30

From reading the service description, this is an encrypted messaging service that happens to have email notifications. I can't write messages with my preferred mail client, can't read messages with my preferred mail client and I can't access my (old) messages while offline. non-protonmail-users will receive a notification with a link that they received a message, not the actual message that they can keep for archivin…

If you used your preferred mail client, it wouldn't be encrypted end to end. This isn't a resolvable difference without running a local mail server decrypting the messages.

Virtru integrates with your existing email client so that you can send end-to-end encrypted email from your existing email account: https://www.virtru.com/other-platforms

disclaimer: I am a software engineer at Virtru. Happy to address any questions/comments!

Re: ProtonMail: End-to-end encrypted email

#44

Post by spacefight »

conorgil145 wrote: post #43
duaneb wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you used your preferred mail client, it wouldn't be encrypted end to end. This isn't a resolvable difference without running a local mail server decrypting the messages.

Virtru integrates with your existing email client so that you can send end-to-end encrypted email from your existing email account: https://www.virtru.com/other-platforms disclaimer: I am a software engineer at Virtru. Happy to address any questions/comments!

Where's your warrant canary?

Re: ProtonMail: End-to-end encrypted email

#45

Post by Xylakant »

conorgil145 wrote: post #43
duaneb wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you used your preferred mail client, it wouldn't be encrypted end to end. This isn't a resolvable difference without running a local mail server decrypting the messages.

Virtru integrates with your existing email client so that you can send end-to-end encrypted email from your existing email account: https://www.virtru.com/other-platforms disclaimer: I am a software engineer at Virtru. Happy to address any questions/comments!

That sounds awfully like a DRM wrapper around the content. What happens if the virtru keystore goes down or is unreachable (temporarily or permanently). Do I have access to the messages I sent/received?

Can the sender retroactively change access to the content?

Re: ProtonMail: End-to-end encrypted email

#46

Post by yellowapple »

duaneb wrote: post #31
Xylakant wrote: post #30

From reading the service description, this is an encrypted messaging service that happens to have email notifications. I can't write messages with my preferred mail client, can't read messages with my preferred mail client and I can't access my (old) messages while offline. non-protonmail-users will receive a notification with a link that they received a message, not the actual message that they can keep for archivin…

If you used your preferred mail client, it wouldn't be encrypted end to end. This isn't a resolvable difference without running a local mail server decrypting the messages.

> If you used your preferred mail client, it wouldn't be encrypted end to end.

Unless you and your recipient use something like GnuPG.

Re: ProtonMail: End-to-end encrypted email

#48

Post by mike-cardwell »

flym4n wrote: post #34

It appears they silently closed a critical vulnerability recently [0] [0] https://twitter.com/StackSmashing/status/474214532114812928

My name is on https://protonmail.ch/blog/protonmail-security-contributors/ because I reported a critical XSS vulnerability to them when they were previously mentioned on here.

All you needed to do was send an email which contained a From header with script embedded in the name part:

  From: "Do evil"
All I did to find this vulnerability was sign up for an account and then plonk the email address they gave me into https://emailprivacytester.com/ (of which I am the author)

Re: ProtonMail: End-to-end encrypted email

#50

Post by higherpurpose »

luxpir wrote: post #15
higherpurpose wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Messages are stored on ProtonMail servers in encrypted format. They are also transmitted in encrypted format between our server and users’ browsers . Messages between ProtonMail users are transmitted in encrypted form completely within our secured server network . Because they never leave our secured environment , there is no possibility to intercept the encrypted messages enroute. Emphasis mine. That doesn't sound…

Read on. It goes on to advise how they allow encrypted mail being sent to external providers, as well as self-destructing messages. The blurb also discusses the limitations of the system quite openly. This part is only noting that inter-user messages never even leave their 'secured environment'. By all accounts it does seem as well secured as any other provider I've looked into.

My point is that it's not end to end encryption. Everyone keeps promoting it like that when it's not, and like they finally solved the compromise between E2E and user convenience, when in fact they didn't.

Basically, it's Lavabit, but perhaps a little more secure than that in terms of regular threats. But an order like the one Lavabit obtained would force them to shut down, too (unless they agree to provide the backdoor), because it;s not E2E. If it was, such an order wouldn't have any power over them.

tl;dr ProtonMail is a competitor to Lavabit and Hushmail, not PGP.

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