Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Change.org Petition: Tell media not to use 'Hacker' when they mean 'Cracker'

change.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 78 posts

Re: Change.org Petition: Tell media not to use 'Hacker' when they mean 'Cracker'

#41

Post by xiaoma »

I first heard of pg through a slashdot article on his book Hackers and Painters. I remember lots of people writing that that word "hacker" was utterly lost and should be retired. The mere existence of the petitioner in this article—Hacker Rank—a company that is taken seriously by the tech industry shows how wrong those commenters were. That the site I write this comment on—Hacker News—is so heavily trafficked by creative builders rather than malicious intruders is icing on the cake.

It's hard to change the meaning of a word, but in this one case a reclamation is well underway.

Re: Change.org Petition: Tell media not to use 'Hacker' when they mean 'Cracker'

#42

Post by imdsm »

davb wrote: post #26
leephillips wrote: post #20

This is probably as futile and misguided as Stallman's effort to get everyone to say "GNU/Linux". Once a word serves its functional purpose within a community it's going to be used to communicate whatever idea it communicates. Words are often used contrary to what their etymology and history would seem to imply. I don't use "hacker" to mean "intruder," but I'm not going to waste any effort "correcting" people who do.

I agree. I think the generally accepted meaning has evolved over time. Hacker, to most people, now means cracker/intruder. Perhaps a more positive way to approach this is to popularise a different term for what we mean by hacker (tinkerer, maker). It's not admitting defeat by abandoning the original meaning - it's taking the path of least resistance and evolving with the language.

The thing is, a cracker/intruder is also most likely a hacker, in the more mild sense of the term. They wouldn't be able to crack/intrude without 'hacking' in order to have that ability/knowledge.

The problem is that people think of A when they read B, because to them, they don't understand, or care, enough about the history of word to properly use it.

Re: Change.org Petition: Tell media not to use 'Hacker' when they mean 'Cracker'

#43

Post by davidgerard »

"cracker" was invented as a derogatory neologism to attack one group of people that called themselves "hackers" by another group of people that called themselves "hackers".

That ship sailed approximately with the first documented use of the word "hacker": http://imranontech.com/2008/04/01/the-origin-of-hacker/

This petition is bad and its creator should feel bad.

Re: Change.org Petition: Tell media not to use 'Hacker' when they mean 'Cracker'

#44

Post by davidgerard »

davb wrote: post #26
leephillips wrote: post #20

This is probably as futile and misguided as Stallman's effort to get everyone to say "GNU/Linux". Once a word serves its functional purpose within a community it's going to be used to communicate whatever idea it communicates. Words are often used contrary to what their etymology and history would seem to imply. I don't use "hacker" to mean "intruder," but I'm not going to waste any effort "correcting" people who do.

I agree. I think the generally accepted meaning has evolved over time. Hacker, to most people, now means cracker/intruder. Perhaps a more positive way to approach this is to popularise a different term for what we mean by hacker (tinkerer, maker). It's not admitting defeat by abandoning the original meaning - it's taking the path of least resistance and evolving with the language.

It started meaning that. http://imranontech.com/2008/04/01/the-origin-of-hacker/

Re: Change.org Petition: Tell media not to use 'Hacker' when they mean 'Cracker'

#45

Post by davb »

davidgerard wrote: post #44
davb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I think the generally accepted meaning has evolved over time. Hacker, to most people, now means cracker/intruder. Perhaps a more positive way to approach this is to popularise a different term for what we mean by hacker (tinkerer, maker). It's not admitting defeat by abandoning the original meaning - it's taking the path of least resistance and evolving with the language.

It started meaning that. http://imranontech.com/2008/04/01/the-origin-of-hacker/

When I was first learning about computing and networks (late 90's), I always knew "hackers" as part of the H/P/V/C/A scene (Hacking/Phreaking/Virus Writing/Cracking/Anarchy) as used in many of the zines, forums and IRC chans of the period.

However, over the years I've seen articles supporting multiple etymologies.

I think we're at a point where we're probably all at least a little right, not that it matters. It would just be useful when relating to the mainstream media and public if we could form some sort of consensus on the terminology.

Re: Change.org Petition: Tell media not to use 'Hacker' when they mean 'Cracker'

#46

Post by hitchhiker999 »

ig1 wrote: post #35

Earliest recorded usage of the term "hacker" in a technology context: ---- 1963 The Tech (MIT student newspaper) 20 Nov. 1 Many telephone services have been curtailed because of so-called hackers, according to Prof. Carlton Tucker, administrator of the Institute phone system. … The hackers have accomplished such things as tying up all the tie-lines between Harvard and MIT, or making long-distance calls by charging th…

Yep, sorry guys - I know I'll get crap for this, but:

The word is the clue as it implies 'invasive force'. Any other meaning is only going to be accepted when enough of you agree 'it is so'. The original meaning (and I've always known it as such, 30+ years) is perfectly outlined by the paragraph above. It does not refer to white-hat stuff.

The original word is 'hack':

cut with rough or heavy blows. hack off the dead branches

a rough cut, blow, or stroke. he was sure one of us was going to take a hack at him" (in sports) a kick or hit inflicted on another player. a cut or gash. a tool for rough striking or cutting, e.g., a mattock or a miner's pick.

I'm going to catch shit for this. Can't we all just get along? :)

EDIT: Fine down-vote me you evil b'stards - b'stard is a person without married parents :)

Re: Change.org Petition: Tell media not to use 'Hacker' when they mean 'Cracker'

#49

Post by dingdingdang »

Listen please: the original meaning of "cracker" is someone who defeats locally installed software protections through patching/modifying the compiled program code. "Cracker" as a term is historically unfit for describing online exploits. Look up "SKIDROW" or "Phrozen Crew" or "Razor 1911" for examples of groups that (at least originally) worked/works primarily as crackers.

Re: Change.org Petition: Tell media not to use 'Hacker' when they mean 'Cracker'

#50

Post by adlpz »

I'm afraid I'm just adding to the pile here, but still: this is complete nonsense.

Hacker is a word that always had several interpretations. And, in fact, the network intruder one is of the oldest.

In fact, cracking, in software, is a very specific thing: bypassing copyrights/copy protections/limitations.

If you don't like what Hacker has meant and still means, don't apply it to yourself.

Post reply on HN