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Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

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Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#41

Post by jimbokun »

I have been programming a long time, and even now I often feel getting the environment set up to start something than just writing the actual code to solve the problem.

Compiler versions, dependency injection configuration files (why yes, I am a Java developer, how did you guess?), build systems, source control, dependency management, library incompatibilities, setting up a test environment, setting up and configuring databases and web servers, etc.

Maybe I don't actually spend as much time on these things as it feels like I do, but I do know futzing with this stuff when you just want to write real code to solve real problems is soul sucking and demoralizing.

So I definitely relate to the hard part of programming, beginner or not, as just getting to the point where you can actually write some code and see what it does.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#43

Post by ScottBurson »

ef4 wrote: post #7

> They don’t tell you that a lot of programming skill is about developing a knack for asking the right questions on Google and knowing which code is best to copy-paste. And they don’t let you in on a big secret: that there is no mastery, there is no final level. The anxiety of feeling lost and stupid is not something you learn to conquer, but something you learn to live with. Just because you haven't achieved mastery…

The OP has it right. I've been programming almost 40 years, and I think it's safe to say I've achieved a certain level of mastery. But when I'm working on something hard, I still feel lost and stupid. I wouldn't have it any other way! If I don't feel challenged, I get bored really really fast.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#44

Post by _RPM »

yen223 wrote: post #13
_RPM wrote: post #3

" As a programmer, there is a limitless amount of stuff to learn" I absolutely disagree with this. I learn new things at least once a week about computer science in general. No one knows everything. "They don’t tell you that a lot of programming skill is about developing a knack for asking the right questions on Google" So, she relies on S.O. for all her programming problems, what if other people don't? SO is _not_ m…

"As a programmer, there is a limitless amount of stuff to learn" "I learn new things at least once a week about computer science in general. No one knows everything." How do these statements contradict each other?

I'm not sure what you mean, but I am saying that there is not a limit to what you can learn, as programmer.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#45

Post by psyklic »

ef4 wrote: post #7

> They don’t tell you that a lot of programming skill is about developing a knack for asking the right questions on Google and knowing which code is best to copy-paste. And they don’t let you in on a big secret: that there is no mastery, there is no final level. The anxiety of feeling lost and stupid is not something you learn to conquer, but something you learn to live with. Just because you haven't achieved mastery…

I disagree with the author -- I never feel lost and stupid. There is always a way of bringing an idea to life, even if there are compromises and tradeoffs.

But nowadays, I am forced to rely on third-party libraries. These libraries often change constantly and have "in-development" nuances. So, the OP regrettably is correct that searching the Internet is a requirement for working on modern applications.

I do reminisce about the pre-Internet days, when all I needed was my brain and a simple reference book!

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#46

Post by greenyoda »

bpatrianakos wrote: post #25
ef4 wrote: post #7

> They don’t tell you that a lot of programming skill is about developing a knack for asking the right questions on Google and knowing which code is best to copy-paste. And they don’t let you in on a big secret: that there is no mastery, there is no final level. The anxiety of feeling lost and stupid is not something you learn to conquer, but something you learn to live with. Just because you haven't achieved mastery…

If you want to be super technical, sure. But in the context of this article that quote rings true. The masters really are surprisingly few in our field. At least the sort of masters I think you're talking about. In my experience most programmers have a sense of imposter syndrome that is very tough to crack so including that quote in the article was something I liked and think is important for other developers to hear…

"The masters really are surprisingly few in our field."

Contrary to what some readers here might expect, most highly competent developers don't have blogs or start their own companies. Most of the talented and experienced engineers who work in the bowels of Google optimizing search algorithms, or at Boeing writing avionics software or at Oracle designing database systems pursue their craft in obscurity and anonymity. I work with master programmers every day who nobody has ever heard of.

Having been on HN for a few years, I've recognized several of the people here as being masters of their craft based on the depth of understanding and experience that's evident in the words they've written.

"In my experience most programmers have a sense of imposter syndrome..."

I think that the Dunning-Kruger effect, in which "incompetent people will tend to overestimate their own level of skill" and "fail to recognize genuine skill in others"[1] is much more prevalent in our field than impostor syndrome (the opposite phenomenon).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#47

Post by demallien »

felixrieseberg wrote: post #2

There's merit in reminding people that a lot of development contains a decent amount of Googling, but I'm not sure that "knowing which code is best to copy-paste" is the main trait of coding. What's certainly true is that learning how to code is dramatically easier than it ever has been; and is likely to get easier as time passes. Learning how to code is indeed pretty easy, knowing how to build a complex product goes…

You know what? I don't think it is easier to learn to program now. Many years ago when I was a child and I got my first computer, it booted straight into a BASIC interpreter. The computer also came with a manual that taught you about if statements, for/next loops, gotos and gosubs. It showed you examples of how to draw to the screen and get inputs.

Compare that to today. There was nothing to install. It was all already there. There wasn't even an environment to launch, you booted into the REPL. You didn't have to hunt for tutorials on the internet, everything you needed to get started was in the manual that came with the computer. And everything in that manual was appropriate to the computer. You didn't have to worry about having the wrong version of dev environment, making the tutorial incorrect.

That's not to say that programming hasn't improved in other respects. I could spend years trying to build a basic TCP/IP stack on that old 8bit computer, which already comes pre-installed on a modern computer. I can grab a free copy of just about any language I've heard of. Huge numbers of libraries freely available allow me to stand on the shoulders of giants. But, nothing available today approaches the simplicity of that old 8 bit system for learning to program...

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#48

Post by BorisMelnik »

jimbokun wrote: post #41

I have been programming a long time, and even now I often feel getting the environment set up to start something than just writing the actual code to solve the problem. Compiler versions, dependency injection configuration files (why yes, I am a Java developer, how did you guess?), build systems, source control, dependency management, library incompatibilities, setting up a test environment, setting up and configurin…

I really see your point on that. I am a hobbiest scripter, I know HTML/CSS, dabble in PHP and Javascript and can read a lot of C.

I tried learning Ruby/Rails a while back and spent 3-4 hours just trying to get the environment setup. I finally realized that Windows 7 was not a very popular OS to learn Ruby on and gave up.

On the contrary, getting a PHP/Python/Javascript "environment" setup is no problem. Notepad + a hosting account or any Linux/Mac and you are good to go.

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#49

Post by yuliyp »

_RPM wrote: post #44
yen223 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As a programmer, there is a limitless amount of stuff to learn" "I learn new things at least once a week about computer science in general. No one knows everything." How do these statements contradict each other?

I'm not sure what you mean, but I am saying that there is not a limit to what you can learn, as programmer.

... which is exactly what "limitless" means

Re: Don’t Believe Anyone Who Tells You Learning To Code Is Easy

#50

Post by ef4 »

psyklic wrote: post #45
ef4 wrote: post #7

> They don’t tell you that a lot of programming skill is about developing a knack for asking the right questions on Google and knowing which code is best to copy-paste. And they don’t let you in on a big secret: that there is no mastery, there is no final level. The anxiety of feeling lost and stupid is not something you learn to conquer, but something you learn to live with. Just because you haven't achieved mastery…

I disagree with the author -- I never feel lost and stupid. There is always a way of bringing an idea to life, even if there are compromises and tradeoffs. But nowadays, I am forced to rely on third-party libraries. These libraries often change constantly and have "in-development" nuances. So, the OP regrettably is correct that searching the Internet is a requirement for working on modern applications. I do reminisce…

If those libraries are open source, you can still do it. ;-)
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