Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 65 posts

Re: Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

#41

Post by Joeri »

gyardley wrote: post #10
rosser wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this is totally Reid's fault. Yeah, he's one of the tooliest tools that ever tooled, but blaming him for the structural problems in the American political system is myopic, at best.

Yes, this is exactly the problem I'm talking about. The barrier to patent reform is not structural. It has a name and face, and when you handwave it away to 'structural problems' you just encourage everyone to do nothing.

The problem is structural though. Replace the first past the post voting rules with a system that allows for coalition government, and you will magically see the diminishment of special interest influence across the board.

Re: Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

#42

Post by jobu »

scotch_drinker wrote: post #2

Every day, it becomes more apparent that our democracy has been thwarted and overrun with oligarchs and special interests. Each party is beholden to its own oligarchs and the best solution I see is term limits of some sort. Politics shouldn't be a career. Because it currently is a career, our politicians must cater to those who are their bosses. The people are no longer the boss and that is the core problem. Even if…

Term limits would help in some ways, but as another poster mentioned it can give even more power to those that control the political money.

The most interesting proposal I've heard is to give tax rebates for political contributions. If you agree with the SCOTUS ruling that money equals speech then giving everyone some cash to spend on politics might give a voice to the masses.

Re: Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

#43

Post by rosser »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #36
rosser wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And focusing on Reid lets the actual bad actors continue to get away with it. Reid is a symptom . Or do you honestly think that if Reid is voted out or loses his leadership post for this kind of behavior, the next guy won't step up, hands out in supplication to the very same special interests?

If doing so costs Reid the next election, then his successor may well not obey those special interests.

...and said successor would find himself un-funded, and thus unable to run in the next election cycle. Being a congresscritter is expensive, and the state doesn't pay for it. That means incumbent or prospective legislators have to appeal to the very special interests to whom they're subsequently beholden to get the job in the first place. If you demonstrate that you're unwilling to do what they want, you won't get the money you need.

Re: Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

#44

Post by freehunter »

Joeri wrote: post #41
gyardley wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is exactly the problem I'm talking about. The barrier to patent reform is not structural. It has a name and face, and when you handwave it away to 'structural problems' you just encourage everyone to do nothing.

The problem is structural though. Replace the first past the post voting rules with a system that allows for coalition government, and you will magically see the diminishment of special interest influence across the board.

But that can't be done without the right people in office, and the first step towards getting the right people in office is to identify who the wrong people in office are.

Re: Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

#45

Post by afarrell »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #39
rayiner wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complaining about oligarchs and special interests misses the mark, in my opinion. Last month, the following companies launched a group to oppose the proposed reforms: Apple, Microsoft, IBM, DuPont, Pfizer, Ford, and GE: http://partnershipforamericaninnovation.org . That's a really broad spectrum of iconic American technology companies. These were joined by a number of research universities as well as groups represent…

> Apple, Microsoft, IBM, DuPont, Pfizer, Ford, and GE DuPont, Pfizer, Ford and GE are in industries that are not plagued by patent trolls. That they're against it tells you nothing about how it would affect them because they don't experience the problem the legislation solves, so it necessarily creates nothing but downside risk for them. No matter how small that risk is, requiring them to put their full support behin…

Pfiser, Microsoft, and IBM all sponsor the startup accelerator MassChallenge. So they all have put some money towards helping grow the startup ecosystem, presumably because it is in their interest somehow...

http://masschallenge.org/about/sponsors

Re: Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

#46

Post by afarrell »

Joeri wrote: post #41
gyardley wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is exactly the problem I'm talking about. The barrier to patent reform is not structural. It has a name and face, and when you handwave it away to 'structural problems' you just encourage everyone to do nothing.

The problem is structural though. Replace the first past the post voting rules with a system that allows for coalition government, and you will magically see the diminishment of special interest influence across the board.

You are trying to shave a yak, but political yaks are much harder to shave than devops ones.

Re: Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

#47

Post by rosser »

freehunter wrote: post #44
Joeri wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is structural though. Replace the first past the post voting rules with a system that allows for coalition government, and you will magically see the diminishment of special interest influence across the board.

But that can't be done without the right people in office, and the first step towards getting the right people in office is to identify who the wrong people in office are.

It's a much smaller, and probably far easier to identify set to enumerate the "right" ones currently in office. I'm pretty sure that set could be counted on the fingers of one hand, across both houses.

Re: Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

#48

Post by rayiner »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #39
rayiner wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complaining about oligarchs and special interests misses the mark, in my opinion. Last month, the following companies launched a group to oppose the proposed reforms: Apple, Microsoft, IBM, DuPont, Pfizer, Ford, and GE: http://partnershipforamericaninnovation.org . That's a really broad spectrum of iconic American technology companies. These were joined by a number of research universities as well as groups represent…

> Apple, Microsoft, IBM, DuPont, Pfizer, Ford, and GE DuPont, Pfizer, Ford and GE are in industries that are not plagued by patent trolls. That they're against it tells you nothing about how it would affect them because they don't experience the problem the legislation solves, so it necessarily creates nothing but downside risk for them. No matter how small that risk is, requiring them to put their full support behin…

I think you're understating the degree to which the formation of the Partnership for American Innovation, and similar efforts, sucked a lot of the air out of the reform effort. PAI's official position is that they're trying to endorse the fundamental soundness of the existing system, not support or oppose any particular legislation. But c'mon: how else should we interpret an endorsement of the soundness of the existing system right as legislative efforts are underway to change it significantly?

This is the press-release for their formation, posted last month: http://partnershipforamericaninnovation.org/announcement ("To date, the conversation around patents has been dominated by those seeking to curtail America’s strong system for narrow, short-term gains. Companies like those in the PAI support a strong, balanced system and are working together to make sure the conversation is driven by facts, not rhetoric, and reason rather than emotion.")

This is PAI's most recent blog post, from 10 days ago: http://partnershipforamericaninnovation.org/belief-patent-sy.... It's titled, "The belief that our patent system is broken is patently false." It leads with: ("If you listen to some commentators on the subject of patents, you could form the belief that the patent system is irreparably broken. According to these arguments, 'patent trolls' are bringing businesses to a complete halt and that software patents are a barrier to innovation. Some pundits even equate 'patent troll' litigation with the legitimate legal interests of inventors who are defending their intellectual property.")[1]

To me, these read as a pointed rejections of the arguments used by proponents of the Senate bill, timed to have maximum impact on the members of Congress working on the bill. You're right that these companies don't suffer from troll suits and so don't have an investment in getting fully behind reform. But these messages, timed the way they were, did a lot more than simply declare an intention to sit out the debate.

[1] Note that statements like these do not get posted on a joint-blog without extensive scrutiny and sign-off by all the companies involved.

Re: Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

#49

Post by logicallee »

jp555 wrote: post #9
digitalcreate wrote: post #4

As a small business owner, I applied for a patent that could protect my startup's key innovation. I am actually glad that the patent "reform" as shelved. IMO, it is a far bigger threat to small business patent holders that a tech industry giant would ignore / steal their IP, than to fall victim to a patent troll. If the proposed legislation goes through, simply trying to protect your own property could end up destroy…

A patent is nothing until it is tested in court; which is very expensive, patent reform or not.

But that's completely false isn't it, just like saying that copyright is nothing until it's tested in court?

There is absolutely a difference between a copyrighted image and a free to use image, even if I know the copyright holder is in no position to sue me. Likewise, there is a clear difference between someone's protected invention (if they have passed a very high bar over prior art, obviousness, etc) and the way the problem is always and usually solved. (If at all.)

I can respect a real patent just as easily as I can respect a copyright, and so it is hardly fair to say that a patent is nothing until it is tested in court.

Re: Who’s behind the last-minute push to thwart patent reform?

#50

Post by afarrell »

larrydag wrote: post #3

I wonder if the original framers of Constitutions around the world thought that one day the lawyers would ultimately rule public policy.

I never understand the surprise some people have that most of the people writing laws are the people who went to school to study how laws work.

Are they also similarly surprised and dismayed that many of the people writing software studied computer science?

Post reply on HN