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The desktop and the developer

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Re: The desktop and the developer

#41

Post by dllthomas »

tomp wrote: post #29
davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

I only used Linux for a short while and that was when Ubuntu Unity was a very new thing, so I assume it got better now, but then it couldn't possibly compare to OSX virtual desktops; it was usable, but very annoying. Having said that, I need a terminal (iTerm2), a browser, and a packet manager (homebrew), and I'm happy. I assume build issues would happen on Linux too, and they would probably be harder to resolve (mor…

Unity is not most people's Linux experience, and it's easy to swap in something better if it doesn't fit your needs (which, so far as I'm aware, is very much not the case on Mac). Given that the parent mentioned Debian, I don't think they were raving about Unity.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#42

Post by tomp »

For me, Macbook (1) is light, (2) has a trackpad more useful than a mouse, (3) lasts for hours, and (4) is reasonably performant (retina display, quad-core, 8GB ram, SSD). I use a terminal, a packet manager, and a browser, so the only thing I demand from an OS is (5) multiple desktops, (6) multitouch, and (7) getting out of my way (no need to tweak settings, compatible with USB/WiFi).

If I knew I could get a similar hardware with an open-source OS, I would switch in an instant. Last time I looked into Google laptops, they had drives too small to be useful for development without internet connectivity.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#43

Post by mnem »

harel wrote: post #33

I just don't get how OSX is so popular with a developers. It is essentially a "user's" OS. Not a developer one. Its geared towards, and hides a lot from, the common user. Setting up OSX with all the dev stack is usually a painful experience requiring a few workarounds (I see this with colleagues of mine who wanted a Mac over a Thinkpad with Linux). The keyboard as well is anythign but developer friendly. Where are th…

Hang on - it's been trendy for a decade now? That's pretty good marketing.

Maybe, just maybe, different developers enjoy coding in different ways.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#44

Post by CJefferson »

misnome wrote: post #26
davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

If you are caring about things like specific bash versions, then you probably don't fall into the category of people who don't want to micromanage every aspect of their system.

There is a big difference between caring about 'specific bash versions', and wanting a version of bash released after 2007. How many other applications on your computer are 7 years out of date?

Re: The desktop and the developer

#45

Post by CmonDev »

davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

"I see developers with macbooks all the time" - some people buy them just for the quality hardware and install Windows straight away.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#46

Post by cmiles74 »

tomp wrote: post #29
davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

I only used Linux for a short while and that was when Ubuntu Unity was a very new thing, so I assume it got better now, but then it couldn't possibly compare to OSX virtual desktops; it was usable, but very annoying. Having said that, I need a terminal (iTerm2), a browser, and a packet manager (homebrew), and I'm happy. I assume build issues would happen on Linux too, and they would probably be harder to resolve (mor…

IMHO, Unity is not the strongest contender for a full, desktop environment on Linux. Both Gnome and KDE provide an environment that I find more comparable to Windows and OSX.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#47

Post by sz4kerto »

fideloper wrote: post #34

"The problem goes deeper" Virtual machines are now more easy to use than ever. Your host OS matters less and less. Furthermore, Linux flavored OSes don't support the "secondary" applications we require that Macintoshes do - Microsoft Word/Excel, Photoshop...and working sound card drivers.

> Your host OS matters less and less.

True. So when you decide what your host OS is what ultimately matters is _drivers_. On my desktop PC I almost always have a few Linux VMs open, and I develop on them. However, Windows as a host OS makes my AMD GPU run cool, it can resume/suspend perfectly, and so on. So for development, Windows as host with Linux guests is close to perfect (and you can version/snapshot/backup your VMs so you can just continue if you change machines).

Re: The desktop and the developer

#48

Post by sz4kerto »

CmonDev wrote: post #45
davexunit wrote: post #20

I've used OS X at work for the past 2 years and I completely disagree that OS X is nice for developers. I've had a lot of issues that I wouldn't have had if I was using a GNU/Linux distro like Debian. Major issues with GCC after certain updates, outdated GNU software like bash, brew is barely acceptable as a package manager (can't hold a candle to dpkg/apt), and I have to go to websites to get the installers for most…

"I see developers with macbooks all the time" - some people buy them just for the quality hardware and install Windows straight away.

Yes. And they're cheap. Well, last year I was looking for a laptop with - >=16G RAM - IPS hi-res screen - okay battery

Dell Precision, HP mobile workstations and rMBP -- the Mac is the cheapest. Now I regret it a bit as the cooling of rMBP is quite bad compared to the other two, but at least it's slim.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#49

Post by hrktb »

The macbook is almost dismissed as an ersatz of linux desktop. I don't think it's a fair assessment. I had a linux desktop, I worked a lot on windows as well, I was glad to be able to switch to OSX because it's the best balance between a very polished OS with strong applications (MS Office, Photoshop etc.) and a decent command line and unix compatibility.

Customability is enough when it comes to the dev environment: the default installed tools are not optimal, but installing a second, third set of tools with brew for instance is a no brainer, and keeping an linux VM handy solves most other needs. Having an optimize windown manager doesn't feel so crucial when adding physical screens solves most of the switching issues.

I really think OSX is the best logical choice to develop for the web or iPhone/android.

Re: The desktop and the developer

#50

Post by grayrest »

drb311 wrote: post #19

This line stood out for me: "They use an Apple because they don't want to use different hardware for work and pleasure." I'm not a coder, and I don't find the idea of a single machine for work and pleasure particularly appealing. Is there something about software developers that means they like to blur the line between home and work? Most of the developers I know enjoy coding, and have side projects that involve codi…

Programming requires maintaining focus for long stretches of time and the easiest way to get that focus is to enjoy the activity. As a result, virtually every developer I've met enjoys coding regardless of whether they like their current job or not. That doesn't translate into programming in your free time for everybody but it does for a lot of us.

The desire to use the same machine for work/pleasure isn't so much about the machine as it is about the setup on the machine. I don't particularly like to spend the half day or so getting my development environment set up on a new machine. Having a laptop means I don't have to set up/maintain/sync multiple development environments and I can work from wherever I like. I use a mac because MBP/MBAs have been quality machines for a decade, the shell environment is close enough, and everything works without my having to mess with it. I actually prefer linux desktop and tiled window managers but using them would mean I'd have to mess with things I don't care about.

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