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So You’re Not Desirable

nytimes.com

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Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#41

Post by hellbreakslose »

I seriously don't like this article...

Why should we try and scientificaly explain the only things that keeps us human? Then come out with a pattern and become robots?

Also in the other hand of the article, my attractivness is medium to low, and I don't attract women easily (my looks are ok, but I got that weird mindset that drives them away). I've had a relationship with a woman that was hot 9/10 very very smart studied in ivy league with scolarship and she was very attractive to the point that we had guys coming after her when we were going out... My life experiences proves that article jibberish ...

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#42

Post by spindritf »

if you do not have a high mate value, take heart. All you need is for others to have the patience to get to know you

Or increase your mate value. In traits like conscientiousness or intelligence 40-60% of variance is genetic. There is no reason to think that somehow charisma is a weird outlier with which you're stuck. She thinks anyone can act much more charismatically https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMu_md_5PQ4 Feels a little newagey but otherwise completely reasonable.

It's the same with meeting people. You probably live in a large city with millions of them. Even with strict selection there are at least a few thousands of potential mates. Why wait until you end up in a small group with one of them?

It also means that you have as many attempts as you want. Blowing out with one person will not haunt you through that social group forever.

This is one of those articles that is supposed to make people feel good about themselves, and maybe it does, but at the cost of bringing counter-productive advice.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#43

Post by sizzle »

rdtsc wrote: post #11
hangonhn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always hated the term "friend zone" because I think it's really as simple as you have just described. One person likes the other and the feeling isn't reciprocated. It's unrequited love. The friendship part makes things more painful and complicated but I don't think it has any bearing on why the person isn't attracted to the other.

Exactly. I think the "friend zone" concept reflects the cultural idea that a person (mostly woman) can be persuaded to fall in love with someone if that someone just tries hard enough. It kind of reflect the idea of women as passive objects that have to be "conquered" or "persuaded" by feats of courage, strength, show of wealth or humor. So now it is the fault of the pursuer for not working hard enough or "screwing u…

I also find it fascinating that if one tries to explicitly express interest beyond being just friends, the 'friend zone' is forever altered as an ulterior motive will likely be questioned when engaging in future events thereafter.

This places the person who would like to be more than just friends in an uneasy predicament: either keep their mouth shut and preserve their 'friend' title, or profess their true feelings and gamble away having that person in their life anymore.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#44

Post by KoalaOnesie »

hypron wrote: post #4

>In a related study of approximately 350 heterosexual individuals, we collected these same measures in networks of opposite-sex friends, acquaintances and partners. Among these well-acquainted individuals, consensus on measures of mate value was nearly zero. These are the people who know what authors you like, what you wore for Halloween six years ago and what obscure movie you will quote the next time you all get to…

The concept of "friend zone" might resonate with more people if it wasn't always a straight man remonstrating about a woman who won't reciprocate his politeness with sex. This article is more about people who take time to fall in love, well, taking time to fall in love, regardless of their gender.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#45

Post by Dylan16807 »

Blackthorn wrote: post #33
hypron wrote: post #4

>In a related study of approximately 350 heterosexual individuals, we collected these same measures in networks of opposite-sex friends, acquaintances and partners. Among these well-acquainted individuals, consensus on measures of mate value was nearly zero. These are the people who know what authors you like, what you wore for Halloween six years ago and what obscure movie you will quote the next time you all get to…

What's wrong with the friend zone? See: http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2615 (This is a snarky way of saying that friendship is its own reward.)

It's generally a good idea for all parties in a relationship to have the same expectations.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#46

Post by personlurking »

I spent my teens and 20s working hard on my uniqueness out of a feeling that I was different. I forced myself to like anything that was out of the ordinary (this manifested itself in attaching myself to any concepts, interests, and preferences that were non-American). I allowed my search to be different to overtake me, making me a bit of a vagabond, more interested in exploration than in work (discovery-oriented rather than goal-oriented).

Liking interesting things can act as a repellent because it becomes so much harder to find others who have worked a lot on their interestingness or who can appreciate your differences, knowledge and tastes.

Now in my 30s, I've let it go (due to a realization that I don't need to try so hard) and it feels as if a lot of it just disappeared. Like a great meal, I loved it while I was eating it but afterwards there's just an empty plate and the memory of the meal.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#47

Post by peteretep »

dubfan wrote: post #39
Blackthorn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you need to do is go somewhere where women exist. Find extracurricular activities that tend to skew heavily towards women, and see if any such activities interest you!

I've always thought that women didn't go to extracurricular activities to find dates, and only men do this. I'd like to be told I'm wrong, but my experiences show otherwise. Of course I do live in a west coast city infamous for its gender imbalance and the associated mentalities that go along with that.

    > I've always thought that women didn't go to
    > extracurricular activities to find dates, and only 
    > men do this
Even if that were true, so what?

Go do extracurricular activities to find female friends, to get some experience talking to women, and you're more likely one of them will introduce you to a friend who is looking.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#48

Post by peteretep »

Fr0styMatt wrote: post #27
curiouslurker wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Game" is only useful in making one realize that attracting women is a learnable skill. I was a big fan for a time but now realize much of what it recommends is like snake oil. I recommend going through David Deangelo's later material (2009+) and also Michael The Wizard. Deangelo's early work made it into "The Game" but even he realized with years of experience that there is a better way (Of course he made tens o…

Any specific recommendations for DeAngelo's later stuff? I too was big into that whole PUA/game thing in a former life (more theory than practice though) and came to much the same realizations about it, particularly after listening to many of Barry Kirkey's radio shows (the very early ones) where he gave you the non-exaggerated, non-glorified view of what it was like to live in that house. FWIW I also have a similar…

    > I too was big into that whole PUA/game thing in a former
    > life (more theory than practice though)
I spent a few years working in that industry.

If you want to bring more women in your life, the most important thing is: "find and talk to lots of them". Everything else is window dressing, which is why the whole "theory more than practice" thing is such a dead end.

Honestly, I'd recommend one of the big commercial workshops. The attendees skew 90% towards people who want to find a life partner, a coach will be able to point out any weird habits you have that are holding you back, and it'll normalize (through a lot of practice) the idea of starting friendly and normal conversations with women in your day-to-day life. The course material tend towards 40% self-improvement, 40% "how to sell", and 20% how to make small talk. Most of them also offer pretty robust money-back guarantees. Hard to over-estimate the benefit of a workshop over reading some ebook.

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#49

Post by rasur »

te_platt wrote: post #5

I remember during my first year at college looking through a friend's high school yearbook remarking on some of the girls I thought were cute but he didn't. He made comments that didn't have to do with their physical appearance - like "she was mean" or "she was rude". When he looked through my yearbook the same thing happened, we just switched sides. I thought it was interesting how knowing the person actually change…

This is usually put more colloquially: "x is alright, till they open their mouth" (and is not gender specific, although it's often used in that way).

Re: So You’re Not Desirable

#50

Post by hendzen »

watwut wrote: post #31
hypron wrote: post #4

>In a related study of approximately 350 heterosexual individuals, we collected these same measures in networks of opposite-sex friends, acquaintances and partners. Among these well-acquainted individuals, consensus on measures of mate value was nearly zero. These are the people who know what authors you like, what you wore for Halloween six years ago and what obscure movie you will quote the next time you all get to…

"Friend zone" means that she is not attracted into the guy. She might respect him, like him, find him pleasant and still not see him as potential romantic partner. She can even find him attractively looking and still not find him as a potential boyfriend. Some boys tend to think it is going to change if they do enough services or help her a lot of whatever. It does not work that way. If you need to work hard on her,…

"A woman may very well form a friendship with a man, but for this to endure, it must be assisted by a little physical antipathy." - Nietzsche
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