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SaaS Builders: Beware The Free Trial

derickbailey.com

41–49 of 49 posts

Re: SaaS Builders: Beware The Free Trial

#41
The only problem I see here is that yours: You wanted customers to discover bugs but you didn´t think that this would cost you money.

As I see it, paying $400 a month for a "bug discovery" service is not that bad if it helps to improve your product. It is your expectations that are not in line with yours actions.

It is true that "people Don’t Value Free Things", but it is equally true that you don´t value your customer´s time.

Re: SaaS Builders: Beware The Free Trial

#42

I'm struggling to see why bandwidth is costing you so much. We have a dedicated server with 10tb bandwidth on 1gbps port for under $100 a month. Also, if the podcasts are failing they can't be using much bandwidth? I think this is cognitive dissonance, you're complaining about free users costing you a lot of money in bandwidth yet apparently they are all failing (very few listeners?)

I'm serving files from Amazon S3. This gives me the benefit of world class storage and streaming, without having to own / run the servers myself. Bandwidth from them is "cheap" at $0.12/GB... but with an average podcast of 30 minutes being 25meg file, an episode with 1,000 downloads is 2.5GB of bandwidth. i have a customer that averages 20,000 downloads per episode, and a bunch of others with close to 1,000 downloads…

This is strictly an opinion, but I think your pricing is way off.

The Pro account should be $9 or $10. You should move to dedicated server hosting, or to perhaps Linode, and drastically reduce your cost basis and dramatically improve your value proposition. 250mb of storage is nothing for $19 / month. The numbers just seem out of whack. Shouldn't customers easily be able to store a huge number of podcasts, given how cheap storage is? Store and forget. You want their content on your servers, all of it. For $99 / month I better get a terabyte of storage these days.

Slash your costs to the ground. Boost your value proposition to the sky. Dramatically increase how many podcasts customers can store on your service. You want them to stream your brains out, and you want it all to happen with bandwidth rates around $0.01 or $0.02 / gb.

With scale, and lots of usage, expand what services you offer to customers. Storage & streaming are commodities, so treat them accordingly, and instead focus on building a customer base with modest margins on the core, with an eye on what you can do with all those customers over time.

By going with the easy AWS solution, you're pinning yourself into a very tight corner on costs.

Again, all just an opinion.

Re: SaaS Builders: Beware The Free Trial

#43

I'm struggling to see why bandwidth is costing you so much. We have a dedicated server with 10tb bandwidth on 1gbps port for under $100 a month. Also, if the podcasts are failing they can't be using much bandwidth? I think this is cognitive dissonance, you're complaining about free users costing you a lot of money in bandwidth yet apparently they are all failing (very few listeners?)

I'm serving files from Amazon S3. This gives me the benefit of world class storage and streaming, without having to own / run the servers myself. Bandwidth from them is "cheap" at $0.12/GB... but with an average podcast of 30 minutes being 25meg file, an episode with 1,000 downloads is 2.5GB of bandwidth. i have a customer that averages 20,000 downloads per episode, and a bunch of others with close to 1,000 downloads…

Right, but if you go with a "budget" dedicated supplier of dedicated servers for cheap (probably based out of EU such as Hetzner/OVH) or out of the US (through someone who provides "unlimited" bandwidth), have everything through s3 as a backup incase the server has any issues, you will be able to save money.

25 meg downloads don't last very long, so the very worst is that your gigabit pipe gets caught for a bit - hell even a company like Linode does 2GB out for $160/m :).

S3 is very expensive for what you are doing, saying you don't need to own/run servers for things like a podcast is just pissing money into the wind.

Re: SaaS Builders: Beware The Free Trial

#44
Well, that was interesting. Now my thoughts.

What is he offering? Podcast hosting service? That's commodity. Of course it doesn't make sense to offer free trial if you are selling commodity-based service. How many hosting companies are there offering free trial? Hint: Not many.

However, if you are offering a service with lots of added value which has strong lock-in effect (it's difficult for customers to switch), then do free trials by all means. If you don't, you will eventually do anyway. Let me explain...

When your startup acquires first customers, you really want to be selective about who your first customers should be. Ideally you want to find "zero-maintenance" customers who just use your service, pay monthly and never really bother you so you can concentrate on growing your startup.

It's true your conversion rate will decrease when you do free trial because as a new product, your free trial will suck so much that hardly anybody will make it through (think 5% if you are lucky) but those that make it true will be the most forgiving and the easiest customers you will ever have.

If you charge up-front, many people who would normally drop off during free trial will try to make your product work by making various compromises. They have all the incentives to do so because that will avoid them hassle of trying to cancel their subscription and get refund.

But I'm afraid this will also kill your little startup. Now you will get needy customers who are not completely in love with your product, made certain compromises and basically hate you for tricking them into using your service and they will make you work hard for a few dollars they are paying you. Not to mention, your churn rate won't be anything to write home about.

You need to work hard to acquire new customers, and hardly work on supporting existing ones. Your startup can't afford your existing customers to be pain in the neck when you are the most vulnerable.

By the time you have a lot of customers, your free trial on-boarding process will improve so much that you won't even think of charging up-front anymore.

Re: SaaS Builders: Beware The Free Trial

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good compromise -- certainly better than the take-your-credit-card free trial that surprises you with a charge. 'Money back guarantee' has worked for a long time, particularly in pre-internet days.

What is really funny is when you think about it, we all buy things without trying them every single day. We make assumptions that a product will work or that it can be replaced/refunded when it doesn't. Surprisingly, in the online world we think everything is different and that nobody buys things without a free trial of some kind, but over and over again I see products and services that sell without a free trial. I t…

The internet is similar to mail order but faster with a lot of tricky details (in the same way that mail and print have tons of tricky details). People don't change all that much.

'Free' gets you a lot of tire-kickers automatically, whereas a guarantee pre-qualifies the customers to the people who can afford to float you some cash. If they're a tire kicker, at least they're not a totally broke / budgetless tire kicker.

There are other free sweeteners that you can offer that aren't a free trial.

Re: SaaS Builders: Beware The Free Trial

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm serving files from Amazon S3. This gives me the benefit of world class storage and streaming, without having to own / run the servers myself. Bandwidth from them is "cheap" at $0.12/GB... but with an average podcast of 30 minutes being 25meg file, an episode with 1,000 downloads is 2.5GB of bandwidth. i have a customer that averages 20,000 downloads per episode, and a bunch of others with close to 1,000 downloads…

This is strictly an opinion, but I think your pricing is way off. The Pro account should be $9 or $10. You should move to dedicated server hosting, or to perhaps Linode, and drastically reduce your cost basis and dramatically improve your value proposition. 250mb of storage is nothing for $19 / month. The numbers just seem out of whack. Shouldn't customers easily be able to store a huge number of podcasts, given how…

I'm pretty sure the pricing was somehow related to libsyn's pricing: http://www.libsyn.com/plans-pricing/

Also, while I 100% agree on lowering costs, I think the idea of lowering pricing is foolish. I don't think cutting price in half is going to more than double sales. In fact, with as small as his sales likely are, it's very likely that he could stand to double the lower end plans. Something more like $25/$50/$100 might be more appropriate.

Podcast hosting is a very small niche. It's not wordpress hosting where there are millions of potential sites. You're talking about potentially thousands of customers total in the marketplace. Now, even at 10% of 1,000 potential customers you're talking about 100 potential customers. At $9 a month that's $900 a month, which is not a lot frankly. At $25 a month you're at $2,500 a month which still isn't great but it's somewhat interesting and something you can at least reinvest in customer acquisition.

At even the top end plan $100/month is going to need 100 customers to get to $10,000 which is probably salary replacement level after taxes for one developer, depending on where they live. Realistically, if the average customer pays $20, that means you need 500 customers to get to the same outcome.

If the company gets 10 sales a month and has 0 churn it is going to take approximately 4+ years to get to 500 customers. Figuring on a reasonable churn rate, it's more like 5 or more years at $20/month to get to $10,000 a month.

Now, if you are starting a podcast hosting company on the side, do you want it to take you 5 years to get to income replacement? I wouldn't.

As a comparison, it took the fairly successful time tracking app freckle 5 years to get to approximately $38,000 MRR with much better pricing. I estimate they have around 500 customers based on their $79/mo. plan. http://unicornfree.com/2013/5-years-of-saas-growth-every-mon...

So, unless this guy becomes a lot better at running his app than other SAAS operators have historically been, it could take 5 years to get to 500 customers paying $20/month. And the outcome would be about 1/4 of the revenue of freckle.

The math behind lowering your price rarely works out in terms of getting you enough extra customers to cover the revenue/profit difference.

Re: SaaS Builders: Beware The Free Trial

#47
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm serving files from Amazon S3. This gives me the benefit of world class storage and streaming, without having to own / run the servers myself. Bandwidth from them is "cheap" at $0.12/GB... but with an average podcast of 30 minutes being 25meg file, an episode with 1,000 downloads is 2.5GB of bandwidth. i have a customer that averages 20,000 downloads per episode, and a bunch of others with close to 1,000 downloads…

Right, but if you go with a "budget" dedicated supplier of dedicated servers for cheap (probably based out of EU such as Hetzner/OVH) or out of the US (through someone who provides "unlimited" bandwidth), have everything through s3 as a backup incase the server has any issues, you will be able to save money. 25 meg downloads don't last very long, so the very worst is that your gigabit pipe gets caught for a bit - hel…

"saying you don't need to own/run servers for things like a podcast is just pissing money into the wind." - that's probably true. i may end up doing something like your suggesting in the future. right now, the streaming side of things is not something i want to concern myself with. i have other things that need my attention.

linode's $160/mo plan would cover me for a while. i'm transfering around 4TB a month right now, and that would cover 16TB.

thanks for the feedback and suggestions! this is something i'll need to keep in mind in the near future.

Re: SaaS Builders: Beware The Free Trial

#48
post #40
post #7

I am a huge fan of the unlimited (duration) free trial. How many of us sign up for something, poke at it, forget for a few weeks, and then go back again more seriously? I'm sure I do it all the time. By the time I remember, I am most of the way through a trial period and haven't actually evaluated wether the product is a good fit for me or not. Regardless of how long your trial runs, people really need to bake in res…

the problem is often unlimited free trials == subsidized by paid customers. I'm sure if Heroku, for instance, was a paid product without free trial,it would potentially cost less to paid customers. This and services like mongohq,mongolab,... clearly subsidize free accounts with paid ones. I think the amazon free tier model is a better model.You have one year to mess around but you still have to pay if you abuse resou…

Of course unlimited free trials are subsidized by paid customers. It is a marketing cost and is baked in to the CAC figure that every SaaS should known and understand.

The trick isn't removing free trials, or changing unlimited to limited. Instead, the trick is to find the sweet spot between costing as little as possible while offering enough functionality that someone can actually figure out if it might be worthwhile for their use without giving them too much that they never pay. It strikes me that the OP was too far to one end of the spectrum--knowing their demographic as they were hoping to, they offered a trial that was bigger than the average podcaster would ever use. Where is the incentive to convert if you can get what you need for free?

While I would never presume to know the OPs business like they do, from a strictly personal standpoint, I find great utility in the unlimited-time aspect if budgeted appropriately.

Re: SaaS Builders: Beware The Free Trial

#49
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but if you go with a "budget" dedicated supplier of dedicated servers for cheap (probably based out of EU such as Hetzner/OVH) or out of the US (through someone who provides "unlimited" bandwidth), have everything through s3 as a backup incase the server has any issues, you will be able to save money. 25 meg downloads don't last very long, so the very worst is that your gigabit pipe gets caught for a bit - hel…

"saying you don't need to own/run servers for things like a podcast is just pissing money into the wind." - that's probably true. i may end up doing something like your suggesting in the future. right now, the streaming side of things is not something i want to concern myself with. i have other things that need my attention. linode's $160/mo plan would cover me for a while. i'm transfering around 4TB a month right no…

We might come across as brash, but we really want everything to succeed. :)
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