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Programming Is a Dead End Job

thecodist.com

41–50 of 186 posts

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#41
post #7

I respond really negatively to the notion of 'dead end.' Programming isn't a dead end job any more than welding is a dead end job or painting. But it is a trade . What is more, managing is a different job than programming. Not a lot of programmers really internalize that until they try out being a manager. Architecture, and technical leadership in general, is still another job. It takes the ability to internalize mas…

  From an economic standpoint, being able to generate 1000 lines of syntax error
  free code per day, is perhaps the best possible programmer you could be, but
  its never worth more than 10 programmers generating 100 lines of syntax error
  free code a day.[1] So yes, there is an economic limit on your pay.
If all you ever do is code functionality that other people dream up, in a system design that someone else specifies, then I agree completely. For a lot of engineers, that's how they operate. Maybe that's how they want to operate, maybe that's the best way for them to operate.

For other coders, and this depends as much on the company and corporate structure as it does on the individual, they are the ones dreaming up new products, new approaches to old problems, layout solid foundation that 100s or 1000s of engineers can build upon, or specifying an approach and methodology which ships the product 6 months sooner with twice the functionality or half the bugs. They are the engineers that make your entire organization not only more efficient, but literally capable of things that they weren't capable of before. That's when you start getting into the same type of ROI from that programmer as that SVP is supposed to be providing.

The problem is most organizations simply aren't organized to promote and reward these engineers, and that's the "dead end". The last time I worked for a company I didn't own, literally the only way I could find to make any real money was to do my programming inside the sales organization, so I could be paid on commission for writing code for "major accounts" which would only later be taken up by the core engineering team and become a full-fledged product line.

Being a quota carrying engineer, with variable compensation and benefits like 'Presidents Club' was living in a different world from the engineering org. What I found was that, when working for someone else, in order to justify significantly higher pay, I had to be more directly driving increasing sales. Doing the exact same work inside of the engineering org, even with the same sales impact, would have paid significantly less.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#42
post #26
post #9

It's a well-written essay (I say this as someone who has been a journalist/editor/manager and is now doing quite a bit of programming again for Recent.io). But really you could say the same thing about many other jobs: * Do you love to report the news? In most jobs as long as you continue to be a reporter you will likely have a limited set of promotions you can get... * Do you love woodworking? In most jobs as long a…

A cynical take on your observations sometimes occurs to me, and seems pertinent. The managers set the wages. Therefore, they will be well-paid, and their contributions will readily recognized. This is simplistic and does not explain everything, but I think it is a major ingredient.

Leverage and measurability.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#43
post #12

I disagree. In France it's the case, if you want to get a promotion and you're a programmer, you hate to move and become a manager or something else. But don't get it wrong, programming and managing or marketing are very differents positions. You can't be good at programming and bo good at managing. Like any other jobs, programming is a real one. Not just one you start with and then move to management or something el…

> You can't be good at programming and bo (sic) good at managing.

I don't think they are mutually exclusive. Sure, being good at programming doesn't imply you'll be good at managing. But there are plenty of great programmers who successfully

> Programming is not a dead end job, if every company like google, atlassian or github does, I mean paying well their developers and treating this as a real profession.

I don't buy this. Even at Google, there is a psychological cap on how much engineers can make—you'll never see a programmer pulling in, say, $10M a year. That's the point: as a programmer, there is a society-wide cap on your pay, some level at which you will eventually plateau. As a manager, there is no such cap: you can eventually be the CEO.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#44

If you expect to get rich working for someone else, you will be disappointed. Everywhere I've worked, things start out great. You get to work on new and exciting projects. Then, new management comes in or your boss makes crazy development decisions and your project becomes a sinking ship. I just dropped a contract that was exactly this. I got tired of being forced to make bad decisions, which I know will lead to the…

I also own my company, there is a limit to your salary in one direction, Zero.

I own my own company too...

In fact; at last count I've tried 14 different ventures over the past 20 years.

Many of those had a net loss over the course of their life. As self-funded companies they have brought my income below zero.

As a IT consultant with clients; that is unlikely to happen, though, and I have used such a business to fund a lot of my other ventures.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#45
post #26
post #9

It's a well-written essay (I say this as someone who has been a journalist/editor/manager and is now doing quite a bit of programming again for Recent.io). But really you could say the same thing about many other jobs: * Do you love to report the news? In most jobs as long as you continue to be a reporter you will likely have a limited set of promotions you can get... * Do you love woodworking? In most jobs as long a…

A cynical take on your observations sometimes occurs to me, and seems pertinent. The managers set the wages. Therefore, they will be well-paid, and their contributions will readily recognized. This is simplistic and does not explain everything, but I think it is a major ingredient.

Like being good with makeup can help you be more attractive, learning how to persuade managers that you are valuable is a skill of its own. You don't have to be a manager to have this skill, although it is a subset of the management skillset.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#46
This is silly.

First, very few people become millionaire CEOs. If thats your standard for success, then every path likely leads to failure because no path reliably leads to that kind of success. Some paths are more likely than others, but none are very likely for the average person.

Part of the reason for flat-ish career trajectory is that programmers earn more at the start than most. Some professions have more of a premium on seniority and experience than others. Senior doctors and lawyers for a combination of the above 2 reasons probably have steeper salary growth than programmers. That said, good 10+ yrs programmers do earn pretty damn well. 10 years as a doctor or lawyer and you're still considered a youngin.

Anyway, if you're the CEO, you aren't a programmer. If he's claiming that being a programmer is not a good starting point for becoming a CEO, I think he's wrong. Look at all the over 40s who were coders at some point, many transitioned into management or something else. Programming actually offers a lot more of that kind of opportunity than anything else.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#48
> Maybe it's dumb but you have a choice between doing what you love and making a big payout by doing something else.

This is not strictly true. Programmers are relatively well paid. You can decide to live significantly below your means, and invest the rest.

For example, my neighbor once referred to his Oldsmobile as his "quarter million dollar Olds". I asked him what he meant, and he said that was the current value of the stock he'd sold to buy it.

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#49
This is absolutely a problem, and a dilemma I try to cope with. I'd like to think that I'm a pretty good programmer, but I know that if I continue down this path I will reach a plateau at some point.

The hardest part for me to cope with is that the y-intercept of programming is significantly higher than that of business, but the slope is much less. So while I might be making twice as much as my business peers when I first graduate, they will eventually overtake me.

Makes me wonder if maybe I should be switching my major to economics... does anyone have resources for people who have successfully transitioned from programming to management/business?

Re: Programming Is a Dead End Job

#50
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, without all of the actual programmers you would have no product and no profits at all. Neither group can function without the other, and pay should reflect that rather than the ridiculously unequal spread we just automatically accept as normal.

Yes and no. It might be an unpopular opinion (and I'm a programmer myself) but 80% of programmers are relatively easily replaceable, particularly in large organisations. There are indispensable unique unicorns out there, but they tend to be well compensated. When a project is managed by one manager and coded by five developers, you could easily lose replace two of those developers with little impact. If you lost the…

>If you lost the manager (who is calculating deadlines, coordinating with other departments, pitching for funding, as well as managing the individual developers) the project could run into problems quickly.

Really? In my experience managers can be replaced rather easily, or at least more easily than it is to a replace a single engineer. It always takes some time for the new software engineer to learn the specifics of the project, and even more time to really grasp the business domain. The new manager has stuff to learn too, of course, but in my opinion it's less than what a new engineer needs to learn.

In addition, if you replace two software engineers, you pretty much lose two man-months of work, but replacing a manager shouldn't cause much problems in the first month.

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