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Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

washingtonpost.com

41–50 of 119 posts

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#41
post #4
post #3

I'm surprised by the amount of anti-Snowden sentiment in the WaPo comments.

Oh, these are just your taxpayer dollars at work...

Yep, it's likely they have some "public opinion making" going on. After all psychology teaches us that people look to other people first to find out what to think and do. These guys spoiled the Internet.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#43

There is some good reporting here by the Washington Post about the circumstances of Clapper's testimony to Congress. Readers here who know my comments know that I'm not fully happy with how Snowden chose to disclose information from inside NSA, and particularly not about his travel to China (Hong Kong) and Russia, but I think Snowden raises a fair point here. There is some genuine difference of opinion among American…

Narrowly regarding "But I don't believe that, because some government leaders and some political candidates are essentially shameless.":

First, there is a tremendous difference between (having already been exposed) choosing to run in the face of that difficulty (possibly not showing sufficient shame, to be sure, but dealing with what is effectively a sunk cost) and choosing to take (or postpone taking) that blow in the first place.

Second, even if there are congresspersons who wouldn't comply in the face of blackmail, are there enough or are they insufficiently identifiable that they can't simply be avoided?

Note that I'm not saying that I think blackmail of many in congress by the NSA is hugely likely, I'm just not sure your reasoning is sound.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#44

There is some good reporting here by the Washington Post about the circumstances of Clapper's testimony to Congress. Readers here who know my comments know that I'm not fully happy with how Snowden chose to disclose information from inside NSA, and particularly not about his travel to China (Hong Kong) and Russia, but I think Snowden raises a fair point here. There is some genuine difference of opinion among American…

Every national government in the civilized world needs an intelligence-gathering agency that can operate with some degree of operational secrecy.

What is the basis for this assertion? What would happen to a nation that didn't have that?

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#45
As far as I can tell, Clapper was asked about a classified program during an open session of Congress. Confronted with a conflict between his oath to tell the truth and his obligation to preserve the secrecy of the program, he chose the latter and corrected his testimony later in private. Maybe I'm misconstruing what happened, but, if not, why is this controversial?

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#46
post #27
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, great. I'm very curious. I am honestly very interested to hear what you feel Snowden has done wrong? I had always assumed that for everyone except those with something to lose (e.g. politicians, bureaucrats) that Snowden 's actions were seen in high regard.

> I had always assumed that for everyone except those with something to lose (e.g. politicians, bureaucrats) that Snowden 's actions were seen in high regard. I imagine this is entirely a function of your social circle. The polls conducted this year have been marginally in favor of his prosecution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentary_on_Edward_Snowden's_... . It's a deeply divisive issue for Americans, though it…

That's odd, I grew up on the tail end of the Cold War and it seems to me that much of Snowden's accusations of the antics of the US government is up there with the propaganda from the US government itself as to why the Soviet Union was bad.

For a generation that grew up with something like East Berlin and the Berlin Wall thinking that government surveillance isn't bad makes me wonder what level does one have to get to before it's considered bad for the people.

For those that did not live through or remember the Soviet Union collapse and the fall of the Berlin Wall leading to German unification I can understand. It's hard for current generations to understand how truly awful WWII was for the human race as a whole, they simply cannot relate.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#47
post #27
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, great. I'm very curious. I am honestly very interested to hear what you feel Snowden has done wrong? I had always assumed that for everyone except those with something to lose (e.g. politicians, bureaucrats) that Snowden 's actions were seen in high regard.

> I had always assumed that for everyone except those with something to lose (e.g. politicians, bureaucrats) that Snowden 's actions were seen in high regard. I imagine this is entirely a function of your social circle. The polls conducted this year have been marginally in favor of his prosecution: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commentary_on_Edward_Snowden's_... . It's a deeply divisive issue for Americans, though it…

> They certainly don't sympathize with the ideas of hypothetical political dissidents that might be hypothetically suppressed using surveillance.

Like Martin Luther King?

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#48
post #12

I'm frequently not on Snowden's side (and Clapper being wrong doesn't necessarily make Snowden right), but he's completely on point here. Clapper directly lied to Congress under oath. He needs some kind of censure.

Oh, great. I'm very curious. I am honestly very interested to hear what you feel Snowden has done wrong? I had always assumed that for everyone except those with something to lose (e.g. politicians, bureaucrats) that Snowden 's actions were seen in high regard.

I feel he was right to disclose the illegal collection of phone records. However, he was wrong to disclose pretty much everything else that he did. He disclosed details of activities that weren't illegal and has hurt the NSAs ability to do its job on behalf of the United States.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#49

Answer: Because the United States is an Oligarchy.

It seems HN didn't like your comment. Maybe a citation is needed: https://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/04/14

I think it's more that it is flippant and doesn't really advance the conversation in any meaningful way. You could post that comment on every story that touches on politics.

Re: Snowden: Why hasn’t DNI Clapper been punished for lying to Congress?

#50

There is some good reporting here by the Washington Post about the circumstances of Clapper's testimony to Congress. Readers here who know my comments know that I'm not fully happy with how Snowden chose to disclose information from inside NSA, and particularly not about his travel to China (Hong Kong) and Russia, but I think Snowden raises a fair point here. There is some genuine difference of opinion among American…

Every national government in the civilized world needs an intelligence-gathering agency that can operate with some degree of operational secrecy. What is the basis for this assertion? What would happen to a nation that didn't have that?

It would be ...gasp... Following its own and iteration law.
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