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Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

reuters.com

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Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#41
There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time.

I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually because an executive (who's since been disciplined) flagged me as a union risk. I said something to the effect of "decisions would be better if made on the floor" and that was taken to mean far more than I actually meant. (I was talking about G+ Games, not unionizing the Valley. Small difference.)

However, that ordeal and the career problems I've faced since then have convinced me that we need to unionize software development and the Valley ecosystem.

The Valley is fucking terrified of unions. So terrified that if you even seem like you might be leaning that way, executive-level people in major companies will go out of their way to fuck up your career. A lot of the back-channel reference checking that goes on in the Valley is to avoid taking on a potential unionist. No one cares if you were a mediocre performer 3 jobs ago. That stuff is there to black-list potential unionizers.

Now, do I think we want or need a factory-style union where promotions and pay are based on seniority? Hell no. That's a terrible idea. Engineers who work their asses off to become the best they can be, and to advance their respective fields, should be rewarded. I think that the top engineers would make more with a properly-designed union structure than they do now (since, currently, they top out at 1.5 times the pay of mediocre ones). I think our model needs to be more like the Hollywood unions (writers' and actors' guilds). Those do not curtail the financial upside for their members (there are still actors making millions per year) nor do they produce mediocrity. (Say what you want about Hollywood's product, but it's immensely commercially successful and the envy of the pop-culture world.)

Specific union protections we need include:

    * readily available legal support when faced with non-paying clients or bad-faith
      employers. 
    * recourse against clients and employers who use reputation threats to justify 
      nonpayment or bad behavior (i.e. "if you don't accept our unfunded scope creep, 
      we'll call other clients.")
    * (for employees) representation when in trouble with management. The right to 
      have a representative *in the room* (mostly, because if you negotiate on your
      own behalf, you're at risk of getting emotional and saying something
      stupid) when dealing with management or HR.
    * defense against negative references and back-channel reference checks in 
      general. 
    * transparency in compensation.
    * protection against "no-poach" lists and blacklists. A union tip line
      can help with that.
    * protection against sharing of individual HR data (salaries, 
      performance reviews) among companies, often used to keep pay down. 
    * negotiation of terms that are embarrassing for an individual to
      formally address, such as severance, health accommodations
      and workplace privacy.
These are all things that we can have, and that we deserve, that bring none of the negative side effects associated with unions.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#43

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

[deleted]

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#44

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

The Norwegian laborers' organization movement, at least the way it worked 20 years ago, is a good model for software developers: Employees cooperating with employers to ensure that no one is exploited, that everyone keeps their skills up to date and that companies retain their competitive edge.

Hope I don't get in career trouble later for saying this (it is under pseudonym though), but I think that a suitable form of organization would be beneficial for software people. Lawsuits like this one are an excellent case in point. We just have to make sure we don't make the same mistakes that the traditional (and especially automotive) unions did.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#45

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

> That stuff is there to black-list potential unionizers.

What stuff?

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#46

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

I suppose my first question is... Why doesn't this union already exist?

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#47
post #39
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does Google.

Being a Google engineer is pretty nice.

Do you really want to work for a company ran by criminals? Why aren't Jonathan Rosemberg and Eric Schmidt in jail?

Fuck them and fuck the entire legal team at Google!

Disclaimer: I work for Google.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#48

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

Michael, I have seen you comment here many times. I don't know you, and have never met you, but I feel it's hard to believe your stories.

Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way.

For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since. Yet this is nothing to do with unions, and all about anti poaching agreements. I don't intend to slander you here, I just find it extremely hard to believe anything you say isn't delivered with an agenda.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#49
post #44

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

The Norwegian laborers' organization movement, at least the way it worked 20 years ago, is a good model for software developers: Employees cooperating with employers to ensure that no one is exploited, that everyone keeps their skills up to date and that companies retain their competitive edge. Hope I don't get in career trouble later for saying this (it is under pseudonym though), but I think that a suitable form of…

Bingo. The mistakes to be learned from are many and well-documented in this scenario.

Re: Apple, Google to pay $324 million to settle conspiracy lawsuit

#50

There's something Apple and Google and their ilk are much more afraid of than this lawsuit and, based on these shenanigans, it may be time. I found out last March why my manager at Google was adverse to me. I knew someone was pulling strings on him and I had thought that he was taking orders related to my criticism of the G+ direction (in fact, the G+ executives were, as far as I know, innocent) but it was actually b…

Michael, I have seen you comment here many times. I don't know you, and have never met you, but I feel it's hard to believe your stories. Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way. For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since. Yet this is nothin…

Almost every time you comment, there's immediately a comment from an active Googler telling everyone how you see things in a completely different way.

Google has almost 50,000 employees. Not all of them are intelligent, well-adjusted people.

For example, you casually mention here how you must be black listed because you have seen career problems since.

I don't think I'm "blacklisted". I've definitely caught inappropriate communications behind my back, to the point that I've had to pursue litigation and have collected a couple of (small) tortious interference settlements. "Blacklisted" implies inability to get jobs, and it hasn't been nearly that bad for me because I'm ostensibly good at what I do. I've just had to deal with annoyances, like inappropriate questions on job interviews.

Yet this is nothing to do with unions, and all about anti poaching agreements.

The original purpose of shared blacklists was to shut out union risks ("troublemakers"). No-poach agreements are a similar, illegal, collusion among employers who are supposed to be competing. There are also HR departments in tech companies who share salary and performance reviews down to the level of the individual, and that's also (if not illegal) extremely immoral. Three heads of the same beast (no-poach lists, blacklists, salary databases) but the infrastructure of collusion is the same.

I just find it extremely hard to believe anything you say isn't delivered with an agenda.

I'd like to fix technology. That's an agenda. What's wrong with having "an agenda"? The alternative would be not having one. I wouldn't post on this forum if I didn't care about the future of this industry.

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