Wait, WUT? • Hacker News Board

Re: Wait, WUT?

#41

Post by chipsy » Wed, Apr 23, 2014, 4:56 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34

frozen_tomato wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this, what you're essentially describing is just watered down identity. The whole point of the value of anonymity is that all posts are equal.

This is unrealistic and won't work in practice. If all posts are equal then all posts are equally worthless. It's a sad but basic truth that we need identity and ability to accumulate reputation to be able to hold a meaningful, informative conversation. If everyone is fully anonymous (in a stateless sense), then everyone is basically a "random internet dude".

Think of books, though. They're the best available counterpoint to what you're saying. People don't necessarily care about the author of a book, but they do care about the content of the book and its ability to piece together a larger idea.

Within forum post culture there's a built-in tendency for content to be fast and disposable. This makes identity relatively more valuable, because it allows a stream of posts to be put in context, just like with a book.

Re: Wait, WUT?

#42

Post by aniro » Wed, Apr 23, 2014, 5:02 AM UTC

kennywinker wrote: post #21

aniro wrote: post #18

I am not really sure what people mean when they say "anonymous" anymore. This app requires a Facebook account. Facebook is a service that all but defines itself on identity verification.

Anonymous to your friends, not anonymous to the service or law enforcement. There should be a word for this... maybe "pseudoanonymous"?

Anonymous to my friends and no one else?

I guess I don't get the use case, as I would generally think anonymity from people I already am acquainted with would be the least useful (to me).

It really seems like there is an entire class of applications that have risen to answer problems that exist solely because of Facebook's dominance and policies (ie: data collection/retention policies and insistence on identity).

Re: Wait, WUT?

#43

Post by andrewflnr » Wed, Apr 23, 2014, 5:30 AM UTC

chipsy wrote: post #41

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unrealistic and won't work in practice. If all posts are equal then all posts are equally worthless. It's a sad but basic truth that we need identity and ability to accumulate reputation to be able to hold a meaningful, informative conversation. If everyone is fully anonymous (in a stateless sense), then everyone is basically a "random internet dude".

Think of books, though. They're the best available counterpoint to what you're saying. People don't necessarily care about the author of a book, but they do care about the content of the book and its ability to piece together a larger idea. Within forum post culture there's a built-in tendency for content to be fast and disposable. This makes identity relatively more valuable, because it allows a stream of posts to b…

On the other hand, I might well not bother with a book unless I know the author of good. I'll almost certainly prefer a book with a known good author over one without. This is just to prevent my time from being wasted, to maintain a decent signal to noise ratio.

Re: Wait, WUT?

#44

Post by jarman » Wed, Apr 23, 2014, 2:09 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #26

kennywinker wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anonymous to your friends, not anonymous to the service or law enforcement. There should be a word for this... maybe "pseudoanonymous"?

'pseudonymous' I believe.

'pseudonymous' is pretty much opposite of this. Identity local to service, but not bound to anything beyond it's scope

Re: Wait, WUT?

#45

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Apr 23, 2014, 3:14 PM UTC

chipsy wrote: post #41

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unrealistic and won't work in practice. If all posts are equal then all posts are equally worthless. It's a sad but basic truth that we need identity and ability to accumulate reputation to be able to hold a meaningful, informative conversation. If everyone is fully anonymous (in a stateless sense), then everyone is basically a "random internet dude".

Think of books, though. They're the best available counterpoint to what you're saying. People don't necessarily care about the author of a book, but they do care about the content of the book and its ability to piece together a larger idea. Within forum post culture there's a built-in tendency for content to be fast and disposable. This makes identity relatively more valuable, because it allows a stream of posts to b…

Not really. I might not know the author, but I rarely read completely random books. Most of the times I read things recommended by other people. The context is not in the book, it's in the way I found out about it.

Re: Wait, WUT?

#46

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Apr 23, 2014, 3:24 PM UTC

amirmc wrote: post #36

TeMPOraL wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unrealistic and won't work in practice. If all posts are equal then all posts are equally worthless. It's a sad but basic truth that we need identity and ability to accumulate reputation to be able to hold a meaningful, informative conversation. If everyone is fully anonymous (in a stateless sense), then everyone is basically a "random internet dude".

> "It's a sad but basic truth that we need identity and ability to accumulate reputation to be able to hold a meaningful, informative conversation." Not true. We do not need to accumulate reputation to have a meaningful conversation. For example, I've seen informative conversations on Secret with the only identity mechanism being the icon they're assigned (presumably at random per thread). Edit: I also don't recall u…

But you have an identity mechanism; even if it is per thread, it allows you to attribute a collection of writings to a single author.

I'm not talking about "keeping score" in a system. I'm talking about the ways human handle identity and associate properties with objects. I may not see your karma, but I see your nick. I don't know your name, or anything about your life, but I know your nick is a reference a person somewhere. If I keep seeing comments written by user amirmc that stand out because of their clear argumentation and reasonable tone, I start to recognize the author and accumulate a feeling of respect. So the next time user amirmc disagrees with me, I treat the arguments with little more care and consideration than usual, because I recognize author as a reasonable person.

This is a natural mechanism of human interaction. My point is that if we reject the entire concept of identity, we will lose a lot of information vital to evaluating an argument.