Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Goji: a web microframework for Go

goji.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 88 posts

Re: Goji: a web microframework for Go

#41

Post by chc »

camus2 wrote: post #37
chc wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Martin Fowler has gone on the record saying that Active Record (the design pattern, of which Ruby's ActiveRecord is one implementation) is not well-suited to sophisticated data models, and he tends to prefer the Data Mapper pattern — which similar to what's being described for Go.

expect it is quite hard to write a generic data mapper in go as well. something like Hibernate or Doctrine ORM would be nearly impossible to write with go.i'm not talking about the basic features but advanced features of both frameworks.

That is true, but genericity is actually not an inherent attribute of Data Mapper. The key idea is that there are fundamental incompatibilities between two data models (e.g. a structure in your program and a relation in your database), and the translation between the two models is a reified component of the program rather than just being absorbed into the behavior of the object itself as in Active Record.

There are some efforts along these lines, such as gorp (https://github.com/coopernurse/gorp), but I don't think they're all that widely used.

Re: Goji: a web microframework for Go

#42

Post by sagichmal »

kohanz wrote: post #35
sagichmal wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (unless one actually feels they can write something > better than, say ActiveRecord, from scratch). The point is that ActiveRecord's method of modeling, especially when it comes to dynamically mapping language constructs to a storage layer via SQL, is too implicit. Too costly. Actively harmful! The point is to get developers to stop thinking in terms of ORM abstractions, and start thinking in terms of the actual tr…

The point is to get developers to stop thinking in terms of ORM abstractions, and start thinking in terms of the actual transforms and manipulations that are occurring. Isn't the point also to encourage code re-use and abstraction? I mean, golang has packages for a reason. I suppose my question is more along the lines of whether we'll ever see a package in go that would standardize the data-object divide or whether t…

    > I suppose my question is more along the lines of whether 
    > we'll ever see a package in go that would standardize 
    > the data-object divide
There is no lucid standardization possible for the data-object divide, in Go or any other language. Too much depends on the semantics of the object and data system. Or, rather said: that standardization (that abstraction) is SQL itself.

Re: Goji: a web microframework for Go

#43

Post by cgag »

tptacek wrote: post #8

This is going to sound a little dismissive, but I don't mean it to be: I'm not sure I understand the value that these frameworks offer beyond the HTTP server interface Golang supports out of the box, plus a URL router like "pat" (or whatever the cool kids are using now other than "pat"). I see the clean middleware abstraction, but I find the idiomatic closure-based implementation of middleware adds only a couple extr…

This is more or less the philosophy of the Clojure community when it comes to web frameworks. Not sure what you're reasons for using Go are, but if you're open to dynamic typing you would probably appreciate Clojure's emphasis on avoiding this kind of complexity.

Though to be honest I do see a decent amount of value in not rewritng form handling/validations/auth in a bunch of different ways.

Re: Goji: a web microframework for Go

#44

Post by mcescalante »

Every time I see a web framework for Go, I just want to see an example or two of a website developed with it. Does anybody have any solid examples?

Hopefully, like me, some others enjoy exploring existing code as well as reading the examples / docs.

Re: Goji: a web microframework for Go

#45

Post by codegangsta »

Looks very nice. I do appreciate having more clean, well thought out web frameworks in the Go space. Type switches for your handlers is a good way to approach the net/http compatibility.

There are some people that find that Martini is a bit too magical for them, and that is completely okay. It's great to see another minimal framework that will suit their needs.

Re: Goji: a web microframework for Go

#46

Post by sagichmal »

gnaritas wrote: post #40
Jweb_Guru wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do, for one, but don't take my word for it... lots of very intelligent people have problems with ORMs. http://blogs.tedneward.com/2006/06/26/The+Vietnam+Of+Compute... presents a good summary of the problems involved (forgive the inflammatory title). Despite its many problems, SQL remains the best way of interacting with a relational database.

> lots of very intelligent people have problems with ORMs. And lots of very intelligent people like them. Both statements are meaningless appeals to authority. > Despite its many problems, SQL remains the best way of interacting with a relational database. That's your opinion, it's certainly not a fact, and just as many disagree as would agree. Secondly, ORM's don't stop you from using SQL where it's beneficial, so r…

    > Your hand written CRUD operations gain you nothing but 
    > extra work.
And maintainability. (shrug)

Re: Goji: a web microframework for Go

#47

Post by nemothekid »

I see why some would call Martini "magic" but I'm not entirely sure I prefer having to deal with a giant `map[string]inteface{}`. What you are really doing is moving the "magic" from the framework and onto the developer (I now have to do type checking and casting).

That said I'm a huge fan of Martini and I actually use codegangsta's Inject in my other projects to manage shared state/resources, so I am heavily partial to it.

Re: Goji: a web microframework for Go

#48

Post by codegangsta »

mcescalante wrote: post #44

Every time I see a web framework for Go, I just want to see an example or two of a website developed with it. Does anybody have any solid examples? Hopefully, like me, some others enjoy exploring existing code as well as reading the examples / docs.

I can't speak for Goji. But one popular open source Martini app is Gogs https://github.com/gogits/gogs

Re: Goji: a web microframework for Go

#49

Post by tptacek »

cgag wrote: post #43
tptacek wrote: post #8

This is going to sound a little dismissive, but I don't mean it to be: I'm not sure I understand the value that these frameworks offer beyond the HTTP server interface Golang supports out of the box, plus a URL router like "pat" (or whatever the cool kids are using now other than "pat"). I see the clean middleware abstraction, but I find the idiomatic closure-based implementation of middleware adds only a couple extr…

This is more or less the philosophy of the Clojure community when it comes to web frameworks. Not sure what you're reasons for using Go are, but if you're open to dynamic typing you would probably appreciate Clojure's emphasis on avoiding this kind of complexity. Though to be honest I do see a decent amount of value in not rewritng form handling/validations/auth in a bunch of different ways.

I like Clojure a lot, and if I was building a new web app today, I'd strongly consider using it instead of Rails (for what it's worth: Golang is great for JSON web services, but not IMO great for full-features web apps, even if you're using something like Angular and a "single-page" type architecture; you pay a huge price in flexibility for it).

However, to talk myself out of using Rails, I'd need to convince myself that I would (a) be able to use Postgres and (b) would not be writing lots of SQL. I can write SQL, and have been writing it for a long time, and I know that writing and maintaining it slows me down.

There's no good Clojure ORM, is there?

Re: Goji: a web microframework for Go

#50

Post by camus2 »

kohanz wrote: post #35
sagichmal wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (unless one actually feels they can write something > better than, say ActiveRecord, from scratch). The point is that ActiveRecord's method of modeling, especially when it comes to dynamically mapping language constructs to a storage layer via SQL, is too implicit. Too costly. Actively harmful! The point is to get developers to stop thinking in terms of ORM abstractions, and start thinking in terms of the actual tr…

The point is to get developers to stop thinking in terms of ORM abstractions, and start thinking in terms of the actual transforms and manipulations that are occurring. Isn't the point also to encourage code re-use and abstraction? I mean, golang has packages for a reason. I suppose my question is more along the lines of whether we'll ever see a package in go that would standardize the data-object divide or whether t…

what sagichmal is basically saying without saying it is go cant do what you want, you just cant write a generic Active Record framework in go,nor a generic data mapper.

the right approach ,when a language cant do what you want, IS code generation with a third party dynamic language.

If you know ruby for instance, ruby excels at code generation,so you could generate go code from a SQL schema or any manifest,then augment it with custom code in another go file that import the generated code.

Post reply on HN