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Am I really a developer or just a good Googler?

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Re: Am I really a developer or just a good Googler?

#41

Post by saryant »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #30
atacrawl wrote: post #15

I use Stack Overflow (and to a lesser extent, Google) to help me with problems large and small all the time. Why break your neck to find a solution without finding out if someone else already did? There's never a point when you can't learn from others.

The question is, are you really learning? How much of that copy/pasted solution sticks with you a day or a week from now? The fact is we are missing the benefit of building up expertise that used to go along with spending time researching (through docs) and problem solving. When every problem is a google search away, there is a ceiling to how much expertise one can build up this way. Edit: the reflex downvoters will…

Some solutions aren't worth committing to memory. Do I really need to remember all the flags on scp just to write a quick bash script when someone has already posted the correct incantation on StackOverflow?

Re: Am I really a developer or just a good Googler?

#43

Post by Jtsummers »

vinw wrote: post #38
baddox wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is copy/pasting a solution without understanding how it works worse than using a library, framework, or programming environment without knowing how it works?

I think it's OK to not know the implementation details of code you aren't responsible for maintaining.

To an extent. You should still know the performance details. As an example, a project a colleague was working on was generating Excel files as a report format. He didn't need to know why the library couldn't handle anything over a (forgot the exact number) 32MB, but he needed to know that detail. It failed to execute on some data files as a result, something that could have been checked and worked around (temporary fix: multiple Excel files; permanent fix: better report format).

Re: Am I really a developer or just a good Googler?

#45

Post by Marcus316 »

baddox wrote: post #27
epenn wrote: post #10

It isn't a crime if you occasionally need to google something. It is a crime if you copy and paste a solution you find without understanding how it works. This leads to cargo cult programming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming

Is copy/pasting a solution without understanding how it works worse than using a library, framework, or programming environment without knowing how it works?

This could be an interesting debate. On the one hand, I can see similar problems arising from either copy/paste of unknown (to you) code or using an unknown (to you) library or framework. In both cases, there is black magic (again, to you) that could go wrong and you just won't know how to deal with it.

On the other hand, there's a difference in the level of abstraction between copy/paste of code and calls to a library or framework. The question is, will you recognize the difference between a bug in your code, a bug in the copied code, and a bug in the framework code?

To solve code problems, you need to be able to identify where the problem actually lies ...

Re: Am I really a developer or just a good Googler?

#46

Post by Thrymr »

baddox wrote: post #27
epenn wrote: post #10

It isn't a crime if you occasionally need to google something. It is a crime if you copy and paste a solution you find without understanding how it works. This leads to cargo cult programming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming

Is copy/pasting a solution without understanding how it works worse than using a library, framework, or programming environment without knowing how it works?

While it's good to know something about how all the component works, most of us spend most of our time at a particular level of abstraction, and don't worry about the details of the framework->language implementation->compiler->hardware instruction set->silicon pathways all the time.

If you understand your code at your current level of abstraction, you're probably doing OK. If you don't, you're definitely in trouble.

Re: Am I really a developer or just a good Googler?

#47

Post by mentos »

Imagine how much value/productivity would be lost if stackoverflow was erased from existence.

I saw somewhere that you can get all of wikipedia on a 128GB SD card? Would be cool if you could get the same for all of stackoverflow. Would make a neat gift and might serve some practical purposes if you were working offline.

Re: Am I really a developer or just a good Googler?

#48

Post by JonnieCache »

nraynaud wrote: post #28
JonnieCache wrote: post #12

Step 0 fire up the debugger/repl and poke. Step 1 read the docs (again.) Step 2 look at somebody else's code: the library and its tests, another similar project, or whatever. Use the source luke! Step 3 put a natural-language-ish query into google/stackoverflow. When you're properly competent with the language and tools you mostly won't get to step 3. By the time you get there, you're looking for a specific piece of…

I always start with 3. I even start with 3 before I have a bug, to see if I can't find a lib for my task, or if someone has a blog post on the thing where I can find some caveats or clever solution.

Indeed, this routine depends on you reading up on the problems you're tackling ahead of time, outside of the development/debugging cycle. This is no different to 15 years ago when you'd look in a book rather than a search engine.

Re: Am I really a developer or just a good Googler?

#49

Post by rjd »

I'm not sure how it differed from opening up any manual to anything. The reason you are opening up the manual is the key point. I think for me its was a progression from 'how' -> 'when' -> 'why' -> 'is there a better way'.

I'll frequently go days without Googling anything, weeks if its just CRUD work. When I started it was very different, I can remember writing entire database layers via copy and paste with no idea what anything did I just knew it worked and thats all I needed.

But I'm at a point now I smell bad code in my own work and want to get rid of it and I only got there because I did google... I did go to blogs... read the responses... reference pages/critiques... read white papers/specs/manuals.

And above all I wasn't intellectually lazy, I put in that little bit of effort to ask why, and then get it verify. Nothing wrong with reading source material, theres only problems if you fail to understand and retain what you are reading.

Re: Am I really a developer or just a good Googler?

#50

Post by dnissley »

baddox wrote: post #27
epenn wrote: post #10

It isn't a crime if you occasionally need to google something. It is a crime if you copy and paste a solution you find without understanding how it works. This leads to cargo cult programming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming

Is copy/pasting a solution without understanding how it works worse than using a library, framework, or programming environment without knowing how it works?

I would say yes, because the effort required understand a copypasted snippet is less than the effort required to understand a library/framework/whatever.
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