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The Drugging Of The American Boy

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Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy

#41

Post by gress »

eruditely wrote: post #32
DerpDerpDerp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response doesn't actually address the article, which acknowledges that ADHD is a real condition, but suggests that fewer than 1 in 5 boys have it, and that a large number of misdiagnosed cases is bad, considering that they're given serious drugs because of it. In fact, the only number it suggests as being inaccurate (based on an old study) is 25% of cases - that 1 in 4 cases is misdiagnosed. However, given the n…

Your response is vague apologism for irresponsible journalism justified on a minor technicality. The articles is so stupidly charitable to it's own worldview(in the sense of lying) and omitting so much from the other side that it is ridiculous. You are wrong to think that these people deserve "serious consideration", when the article is written itself to produce knee-jerk reactions "The drugging of the american boy..…

The loss of self esteem resulting from how school treats kids is due to a fault with school, not with the kids.

Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy

#42

Post by davyjones »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_R_(Leading_Us_Along)

"The song was written about a friend of the Loeffler brothers, who was misdiagnosed with ADHD, and developed an addiction to Ritalin. As a result, he would often do crazy and odd things, such as drive around aimlessly for hours, determined to hear a specific song on the radio."

:-(

Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy

#43

Post by jonah »

gizmo686 wrote: post #16
jonah wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't we try to get to the root causes of these "behavioral issues" instead of treating the symptoms.

Isn't that what ADHD medication tries to do. If the root cause is a chemical imbalance, then treating is as a behavioural problem is only treating the symptoms.

I'll bite. Where does the imbalance come from?

It doesn't come from not taking your medications.

Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy

#44

Post by eruditely »

curiousDog wrote: post #38

To me, as an adult, getting a diagnosis on ADHD was a godsend. However, after a couple of years, I see the drug's affects waning. I can also see how damaging this dependency creation can be for children. Fortunately, when I was a child back in India, ADHD was virtually unknown (probably the case today as well). Most of the time, my parents chalked off my inattention to "lack of discipline" and were happy as long as m…

Again vague appeals to solutions that simply do not work as well as stimulant medications.

http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=ADHD&Template=/Cont... T

1. Thirty two percent of students living with ADHD drop out of high school compared to 15 percent of teens with no mental health diagnosis (UC Davis Health System, 2010)

2.Three times as many adolescents living with ADHD as those living without ADHD have failed a grade, been suspended or been expelled from school. (Barkley, 2000).

You're right though, let them exercise and make them note-take, that will work(while you ignore that this simply is not effective, as studied in the current literature)

"Fixing dopamine pathways isn't exactly like curing malaria", profound.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/115/6/e749.lon... (Treatment of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder: Overview of the Evidence)

Conclusion: "Other evidence documents the long-term nature of ADHD in children and its classification as a chronic condition, meriting the application of general concepts of chronic-condition management, including an individual treatment plan with a focus on ongoing parent and child education, management, and monitoring. The evidence strongly supports the use of stimulant medications for treating the core symptoms of children with ADHD and, to a lesser degree, for improving functioning. Behavior therapy alone has only limited effect on symptoms or functioning of children with ADHD, although combining behavior therapy with medication seems to improve functioning and may decrease the amount of (stimulant) medication needed. Comparison among stimulants (mainly methylphenidate and amphetamines) did not indicate that 1 class outperformed the other."

Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy

#45

Post by jonah »

gress wrote: post #7
DerpDerpDerp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response doesn't actually address the article, which acknowledges that ADHD is a real condition, but suggests that fewer than 1 in 5 boys have it, and that a large number of misdiagnosed cases is bad, considering that they're given serious drugs because of it. In fact, the only number it suggests as being inaccurate (based on an old study) is 25% of cases - that 1 in 4 cases is misdiagnosed. However, given the n…

Also it's worth pointing out that if 1 in 5 boys have it, it's not a disorder. It's part of the normal range.

Did 1 in 5 have it 50 years ago? 100? 500? If not, why now?

Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy

#46

Post by ddoolin »

curiousDog wrote: post #38

To me, as an adult, getting a diagnosis on ADHD was a godsend. However, after a couple of years, I see the drug's affects waning. I can also see how damaging this dependency creation can be for children. Fortunately, when I was a child back in India, ADHD was virtually unknown (probably the case today as well). Most of the time, my parents chalked off my inattention to "lack of discipline" and were happy as long as m…

I actually was never diagnosed with ADHD as a child or an adult. I exhibit a similar coding pattern as you did, and still do, since high school. I get bored very, very quickly and kind of live off of the "aha" moments, from one to the next. It's not that it's not genuinely challenging or interesting to me, but I just can't focus much of the time. This is true for just about everything I do these days. Thoughts and ideas come, I act on them, and they leave again just as quickly as they came. It definitely makes it hard to get much of anything done at work or home, despite having quite an agenda at times.

I've only taken Vyvanse offhandedly (without Rx) and it worked miracles for me. I quickly learned to ration it and use it sparingly as you do, partly because of the negative effects on my appetite and general well-being. I'm still debating going to see a doctor but I think they might write me off as an addict since I'm in my 20s but still quite young and a lot of kids come out of college abusing the stuff to get through exams and maybe never really drop the habit.

Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy

#47

Post by eruditely »

gress wrote: post #41
eruditely wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response is vague apologism for irresponsible journalism justified on a minor technicality. The articles is so stupidly charitable to it's own worldview(in the sense of lying) and omitting so much from the other side that it is ridiculous. You are wrong to think that these people deserve "serious consideration", when the article is written itself to produce knee-jerk reactions "The drugging of the american boy..…

The loss of self esteem resulting from how school treats kids is due to a fault with school, not with the kids.

You're right, as long as we fix the schools and the parents. Of which the majority have little scientific background, will use vague inprecise heuristics such as you are not disciplined enough, as opposed to the much easier solution of providing drugs so that these kids not crash their vehicles.

Irresponsible apologism over and over while not demanding the same from the author. Anti-medication pop-trash.

Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy

#48

Post by Andrex »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #20

Next can we talk about SSRI's? My little brother was prescribed Paxil as an adolescent. Now he's in prison for murder. Now Paxil is not allowed to be prescribed for adolescents and children but my brother will die in prison. He behaved exactly how kids prescribed this medicine behave, in a murderous rage.

He killed someone as an adolescent but was still tried as an adult? That's rough, man.

Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy

#49

Post by eruditely »

andyl wrote: post #6

A few years ago teachers complained that both my boys were too intense on the playground, 'diagnosed' with ADHD. Docs were eager to prescribe meds to make them conform. There is something in our society wants to redefine normal behavior as pathology. Maybe to get you hooked and build revenue streams, maybe just to make you more pliable. Fuck that. Yes there are legitimate cases. But I've only experienced people who w…

You've only experienced people who want to mis-apply the meds? What criteria for mis-apply are you using here? "Docs were eager to prescribe meds to make them conform", awkward appeal to malicious agency. It is doubtful that doctors were "Eager to make them conform".

"Something to redefine behavior as pathology... maybe to get you hooked and build revenue streams", ah yes. That's it. Never mind the much higher incident of high school drop out, repeated grades, 1/4th as likely as other kids to pass college, more likely to go to jail, and get in a car crash.

Re: The Drugging Of The American Boy

#50

Post by eruditely »

ddoolin wrote: post #46
curiousDog wrote: post #38

To me, as an adult, getting a diagnosis on ADHD was a godsend. However, after a couple of years, I see the drug's affects waning. I can also see how damaging this dependency creation can be for children. Fortunately, when I was a child back in India, ADHD was virtually unknown (probably the case today as well). Most of the time, my parents chalked off my inattention to "lack of discipline" and were happy as long as m…

I actually was never diagnosed with ADHD as a child or an adult. I exhibit a similar coding pattern as you did, and still do, since high school. I get bored very, very quickly and kind of live off of the "aha" moments, from one to the next. It's not that it's not genuinely challenging or interesting to me, but I just can't focus much of the time. This is true for just about everything I do these days. Thoughts and id…

What does "abuse" mean in your context? "Abusing it to get by", very anti-humanistic mentality here.

"The kids with polio abused vaccines to get by" "The kids with hunger abused food to get by"

What does "abusing to get by" even mean? You mean, USING it to get by, and thus preventing failure of the negative kind? You mean ... the desire-able outcome?

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