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Inclusiveness at Mozilla

brendaneich.com

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Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#41

Post by slucidi »

dublinben wrote: post #28
slucidi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that not saying he's sorry he hurt people? I don't understand what you are having a problem with.

This is a classic non-apology apology. He's not sorry for the original action which offended people, just that his action caused offense. It's the kind of corporate double-speak you hear from someone who is not sorry for their actions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-apology_apology

Except he apologised for causing hurt, he didn't apologise that people felt hurt. There's a difference in the level of responsibility taken for the action.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#42

Post by tunesmith »

morley wrote: post #2

For those of you who are as confused as I was about why he's being so defensive about LGBT issues, here's context: http://arstechnica.com/business/2014/03/gay-firefox-develope...

Thanks, after reading the context, his statement seems rather contentless.

He may very well be committed to accepting the battles he has already lost. But that kind of social progress is an ever-moving target, and the statement doesn't demonstrate any willingness to keep pace.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#43

Post by lawl »

GuiA wrote: post #36
lawl wrote: post #18

I have commented on this issue before [0]. I've been thinking about this again. After reading this I think he still stands to his opinion, that he personally thinks gay marriage is wrong. Obviously he's an idiot, but I think even idiots are entitled to their opinion as long as it doesn't interfere with his work at mozilla . I think that is also what he's trying to say with his blog post. I think he made it pretty cle…

As a CEO, you live, breathe and sleep for the company. While the personal/professional division can be easily made for an employee far down on the org chart who does his job for 8 hours and then goes home, can the same be done for a top level executive, let alone the CEO?

What do you expect from an answer from me on this? Obviously I'd say yes....

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#44

Post by Argorak »

0x420 wrote: post #37
slucidi wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that not saying he's sorry he hurt people? I don't understand what you are having a problem with.

There is a difference between apologizing for your behavior and apologizing for the way people react to it. One implies accountability, the other does not.

He addresses accountability further down in the text.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#45

Post by sroerick »

[deleted] wrote: post #26

[deleted]

I was in SF last week and visited the Mozilla office to see what it looked like.

It looked like a locked door with a surveillance camera outside. I understand the need for security and privacy, but it was a little jarring to see it from Mozilla. I'm sure if I can contacted someone for a tour I'd have gotten a better response, but my perception of the organization has changed a little bit.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#46

Post by coldtea »

hapless wrote: post #11

He just wanted to take an opportunity to "express [..] sorrow at having caused pain." Eich does not regret his actions, he's just sorry that you felt pain because of the things he did. Classic business-ese non-apology.

Why should he regret his actions? It's his personal opinion and he backed it with his own money, and at his own leisure time. He has a right to believer whatever he likes in his personal life, and push politically for whetever outcome he prefers -- as long as he is not abusing the law.

Apologising for how you vote, or what you believe, or what policies you root for is not democracy. And, yes, in a democracy you can also vote to restrict what other people can do. In fact, almost all laws are created for this very reason: to restrict certain actions.

He didn't do anything in his professional capacity that he should be apologising for.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#47

Post by GuiA »

lawl wrote: post #43
GuiA wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a CEO, you live, breathe and sleep for the company. While the personal/professional division can be easily made for an employee far down on the org chart who does his job for 8 hours and then goes home, can the same be done for a top level executive, let alone the CEO?

What do you expect from an answer from me on this? Obviously I'd say yes....

I'm just trying to understand exactly where our reasoning diverges.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#49

Post by macu »

GuiA wrote: post #24

Bob becomes the CEO of a large entity, FizzBuzzCorp. In the past, FizzBuzzCorp has been respected for its integrity, respect of its employees, and inclusiveness. However, it turns out that in the past, Bob supported groups that claimed that men and women did not deserve the same rights as citizens; for example, that women should not be able to vote, or be on a comparable pay scale. Now appointed CEO, there is concern…

I think we can recognize that Bob and FizzBuzzCorp are separate entities, and that Bob, if competent as a CEO, is also able to recognize and maintain the distinction.

Re: Inclusiveness at Mozilla

#50

Post by nine_k »

lawl wrote: post #18

I have commented on this issue before [0]. I've been thinking about this again. After reading this I think he still stands to his opinion, that he personally thinks gay marriage is wrong. Obviously he's an idiot, but I think even idiots are entitled to their opinion as long as it doesn't interfere with his work at mozilla . I think that is also what he's trying to say with his blog post. I think he made it pretty cle…

I personally suppose that seeing someone as an idiot because of difference in opinions is more debilitating than having an arbitrarily wrong opinion.

World is not black and white, and has never been.

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