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Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

teamrarebit.com

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Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#41

Post by it_learnses »

m0skit0 wrote: post #6

I understand your posture and I totally support gay marriage, but you're mixing politics with work, and you're taking a personal issue to a professional level. It's Brendan Eich that supported the prop 8, not Mozilla. That's a very very very VERY unprofessional stance. From now on I will be very careful in buying/getting anything from your company because of huge lack of professionalism being shown here. This said, I…

what's unprofessional about this stance? They're standing up for their values. Why should we separate different aspects of our lives? We're not machines, we're human beings. I say, I'd love to do business with them because they stand up for their values rather than bow to greed and fear not getting some unknown moroccan's business.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#42

Post by orthecreedence »

ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #11

Would you also reject Tomas Jefferson as a founding father of America because he owned slaves? Should Martin Luther King also be rejected as an icon of the civil rights movement because he plagiarized material and had extramarital affairs with women. What people do or think in their personal lives and the value they add to a company are two different things. What about Nelson Mandella? Bill Clinton? Or all the other…

If Brian had funded a political campaign to deny voting rights to all people named Chris, you may be singing a different tune.

They outlined that they were personally affected by his political choices, and therefor hurt that Mozilla would promote him. This isn't about someone's personal flaws. It's about someone's actions affecting someone else personally and boycotting a company for not acknowledging that.

Seems valid to me.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#43

Post by pessimizer »

vsviridov wrote: post #10

"By using Arabic numerals you are helping terrorists." As long as Mozilla products do not feature a "Not to be used by gays" warning, whatever Eich does in his time is irrelevant. He's free to spend his money in any way he likes. What prevented the authors of this article to spend $1000 to counterbalance Eich's contribution if they are so concerned?

Because it's not about the $1000 (and you didn't honestly think it was.)

With your prescription of discriminated against minorities offsetting the donations of bigots to parties who would fortify or extend that discrimination, gay people would also have to worry about bankruptcy. There's at least 5 bigots for each gay person.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#44

Post by chrismonsanto »

I support your decision to boycott, although I personally disagree with it.

I wish you would give Brendan the chance to repent.

First of all, and most importantly, it's unlikely they are going to shitcan him as CEO.

Second, he has not spoken about his motivations for donating to Prop 8. If he was doing so in pursuit of abolishing the marriage institution altogether, I consider that very different than doing it because he only wants straight people to marry. (Since this is a politically charged issue, I will say that while I am personally in favor of abolishing marriage altogether, I think actively working to deny gays the right to marry in the interim is an exceptionally absurd idea.)

Third, his views may have changed over the years.

If he came out saying he was wrong and donated 10x the amount he donated to Prop 8 to a LGBT charity, I would consider that a win. There are ways to make this right without shitcanning him.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#46

Post by transitionality »

it_learnses wrote: post #33
transitionality wrote: post #23

When you're attempting blackmail, you need to ensure that your hostage has value to your victims that is commensurate with your ransom demand. You have a shitty puzzle game that's getting "thousands of downloads" and you want Mozilla to fire their CEO over that. Not going to happen. We can do without your shitty puzzle game, thanks.

It's not just them or their puzzle game. It's not just gay people either. It's everybody who wants everyone to be treated equally and not be denied their humanity. The CEO's values fly in the face of Mozilla's values. That's why he should be shown the exit door.

They're certainly not treating Brendan Eich equally.

Discrimination on the basis of political stance is bigotry, too.

Their position is extremely hypocritical, and by defending it, you become complicit in their hypocrisy.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#47

Post by glesica »

yeukhon wrote: post #29
autarch wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling this a "form of oppression" is a bit silly. How are Brendan Eich's rights being denied here? How is Brendan being prevented from acting on his own beliefs? These two people decided that they don't want to associate with an organization where the CEO is, in their opinion, anti-gay. That's entirely within their rights, isn't it? As others in the thread said, action have consequences. One consequence of being pu…

If you actually read the article: We will continue our boycott until Brendan Eich is completely removed from any day to day activities at Mozilla, which we believe is extremely unlikely after all he’s survived and the continued support he has received from Mozilla. A quick interpretation would be "Mozilla should never pick someone who doesn't like gays." That's against employment equality even though CEO is a unique…

That's against employment equality...

Is it though? Are homophobes a protected class? Would a company be forced at the point of a lawsuit to hire a goose-stepping neo-Nazi if he or she had impeccable credentials?

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#48

Post by yeukhon »

Blahah wrote: post #38
vsviridov wrote: post #10

"By using Arabic numerals you are helping terrorists." As long as Mozilla products do not feature a "Not to be used by gays" warning, whatever Eich does in his time is irrelevant. He's free to spend his money in any way he likes. What prevented the authors of this article to spend $1000 to counterbalance Eich's contribution if they are so concerned?

> whatever Eich does in his time is irrelevant Of course it isn't. If he was backdooring JS crypto libraries for the NSA, or shooting orphans, or selling crack, that would be seriously inappropriate behaviour and he would lose his job for it. Many people might consider it inappropriate to be fighting against gay marriage - it's not just a political issue, it's a moral one.

Many people might consider it inappropriate to be fighting against gay marriage - it's not just a political issue, it's a moral one.

Yet, we are forcing everyone to take a stand on this "moral" issue.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#49

Post by Zikes »

general_failure wrote: post #37
ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #11

Would you also reject Tomas Jefferson as a founding father of America because he owned slaves? Should Martin Luther King also be rejected as an icon of the civil rights movement because he plagiarized material and had extramarital affairs with women. What people do or think in their personal lives and the value they add to a company are two different things. What about Nelson Mandella? Bill Clinton? Or all the other…

You are picking people in the past and comparing them to the present. Continuing your line of thought..So you are saying if someone had slaves today, you would condone that act and continue supporting other stuff they make? Sorry, I would not.

He's saying that morality is independent of context, and the idea of owning slaves was just as reprehensible in the past as it is today, it was merely more socially acceptable.

Much like Proposition 8 was, at the time.

Re: Goodbye, Firefox Marketplace

#50

Post by judah »

This is definitely one of those moral fashions [1] that Paul Graham wrote about:

"What scares me is that there are moral fashions too. They're just as arbitrary, and just as invisible to most people. But they're much more dangerous. Fashion is mistaken for good design; moral fashion is mistaken for good. Dressing oddly gets you laughed at. Violating moral fashions can get you fired, ostracized, imprisoned, or even killed."

Society has shifted on this issue, such that the traditional is considered unacceptable to hold; you're ostracized with negative labels should you hold the unfashionable position. This is precisely what TeamRarebit is doing to Brendan Eich: ostracizing him for his moral stance, one that has fallen out of fashion.

[1]: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

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