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Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

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Re: Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

#41

Post by TempleOSV2 »

You cannot club these niggers hard enough. I want to beat you, you're so stupid. Maybe it would help.

retard nigger.

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----

First, the Beacon-generated numbers cannot be predicted before they are published. Second, the public, time-bound, and authenticated nature of the Beacon allows a user application to prove to anybody that it used truly random numbers not known before a certain point in time. Third, this proof can be presented offline and at any point in the future.

Re: Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

#42

Post by ilaksh »

As far as the particular issue he picks on, he is making a big deal about something that's not, at least if you accept the general premises of Angular, and trying to pin the core of his whole argument on that. Which is dumb.

Anyway, I have used many, many different UI frameworks on different platforms over the years. Including different .NET systems, Backbone, Angular and to some degree web components. And many other lightweight and heavyweight systems.

I am actually amazed that developers are not immediately seeing the obvious advantages of Web Components (with Polymer for now).

I am amazed that people are still trying to master AngularJS when we have Polymer. (At least the people who can tell their users to use a new version of Firefox or Safari, which is actually quite a lot of web apps these days, although obviously not all).

Angular is very obviously more complex than necessary.

Very few people are going to be with me on this, but this whole idea of separating out scope and avoiding global variables at all cost has got to the point where it is just ludicrous. And the only explanation is that this stigma about global variables has a religious and un-questioned association with incompetence. Unfortunately that particular cargo cult can lead to things like Angular DI.

Why aren't more web developers excited about Polymer and Web Components? Because many web developers, despite experience with Angular, get distracted by DI and other over-complex topics and somehow fail to completely grasp the basic concepts and advantages of what a user interface component is and does.

Re: Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

#43

Post by meric »

The author is concerned about the future of Angular because of the idiosyncrasies of one method of including dependencies. I mean, really? Is it so bad, the stench of automatic dependency injection, it overcomes all other beneficial features of Angular, it would jeopardise it's future as a web framework, such that it would lose compatibility with future browsers and your web app built in angular will stop working, with no support available? IMO it's a bit hyperbolic to suggest this is the case.

Re: Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

#44

Post by grumblestumble »

- AngularJS is a tool for building complex single-page web applications, not brochureware. - If you're building complex SPAs, you're going to require a decent level of tooling. - If you have a decent level of tooling, the points in this article are meaningless.

As an aside, ngMin is the most trivial thing in the world to set up, and if you can't figure it out, array notation is slightly painful but well worth it for all of the tools Angular provides.

Re: Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

#45

Post by grumblestumble »

ilaksh wrote: post #42

As far as the particular issue he picks on, he is making a big deal about something that's not, at least if you accept the general premises of Angular, and trying to pin the core of his whole argument on that. Which is dumb. Anyway, I have used many, many different UI frameworks on different platforms over the years. Including different .NET systems, Backbone, Angular and to some degree web components. And many other…

Web developers are excited about Polymer and Web Components. However, using a product still on release 0.2 for building real-world, production apps is generally frowned upon by anybody over 16.

Re: Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

#46

Post by acjohnson55 »

ilaksh wrote: post #42

As far as the particular issue he picks on, he is making a big deal about something that's not, at least if you accept the general premises of Angular, and trying to pin the core of his whole argument on that. Which is dumb. Anyway, I have used many, many different UI frameworks on different platforms over the years. Including different .NET systems, Backbone, Angular and to some degree web components. And many other…

I disagree with you that the hacky DI scheme is something that should be ignored. It's brittle and really has no place in the core of a library like this. It's not an end of the world thing, but it's definitely worth addressing.

I totally agree with you that Angular is overly complex. I feel like they somehow either overshot or undershot the correct layer of abstraction, and I'm not sure how. It can produce really elegant projects for sure, but when you need to actually understand what's going on...prepare to navigate a whole new world of linkers, compilers, injectors, scopes, directive options. The spiral just keeps on going.

I don't get the defense of global variables. I feel like it's been proven time and time again that the trouble of encapsulating code and explicitly coupling parts of an app through clear interfaces pays dividends. I think class and module patterns have been a major turning point in the maturation of Javascript. I'm hoping that when we finally get native opinions of these concepts in ES6, we won't need so many reinventions of the same thing.

Re: Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

#47

Post by acjohnson55 »

cmbaus wrote: post #36
grrowl wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the first things that "broke my brain" when starting with Angular.js (during its wild 0.x days) was inferred injection — I know Javascript. I know how arguments are passed. What the fuck is happening here?? At that time documentation was sparse and often incorrect, but I'm very glad they're moving to a more predictable and sane DI model.

I had this exact experience yesterday. I was reviewing the code spit out by a Yeoman generator, while reading some Angular docs (admittedly out of order), and I has confused about how variables were being defined. I finally read something that explained what to do (add a variable using a specific naming convention to the function declaration). I realized the framework was doing some sort of backhanded meta-programmin…

I think one of the nice things about Javascript (man, I wouldn't have seen myself saying that a year ago) is that this kind of hackery isn't really considered idiomatic. You can get so much mileage out of an extra function expression wrapper.

Re: Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

#48

Post by ilaksh »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #46
ilaksh wrote: post #42

As far as the particular issue he picks on, he is making a big deal about something that's not, at least if you accept the general premises of Angular, and trying to pin the core of his whole argument on that. Which is dumb. Anyway, I have used many, many different UI frameworks on different platforms over the years. Including different .NET systems, Backbone, Angular and to some degree web components. And many other…

I disagree with you that the hacky DI scheme is something that should be ignored. It's brittle and really has no place in the core of a library like this. It's not an end of the world thing, but it's definitely worth addressing. I totally agree with you that Angular is overly complex. I feel like they somehow either overshot or undershot the correct layer of abstraction, and I'm not sure how. It can produce really el…

Hm. Forget I mentioned the term "global variable" since it is a religious term.

I am not trying to argue against proper encapsulation and coupling/decoupling. Those things are great. Classes and modules and great. Not sure how you see me as attacking those things.

Say I am working on a web application and I want to use AJAX. I should not have to keep saying in every place that I want to use it "oh by the way I am using AJAX".

If you agree with this then exactly what sort of encapsulation and coupling would you recommend for the overall application to achieve not having to keep saying that it wants to use AJAX?

Re: Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

#49

Post by pault »

cmbaus wrote: post #36
grrowl wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the first things that "broke my brain" when starting with Angular.js (during its wild 0.x days) was inferred injection — I know Javascript. I know how arguments are passed. What the fuck is happening here?? At that time documentation was sparse and often incorrect, but I'm very glad they're moving to a more predictable and sane DI model.

I had this exact experience yesterday. I was reviewing the code spit out by a Yeoman generator, while reading some Angular docs (admittedly out of order), and I has confused about how variables were being defined. I finally read something that explained what to do (add a variable using a specific naming convention to the function declaration). I realized the framework was doing some sort of backhanded meta-programmin…

The injector is all crazy pants: https://github.com/angular/angular.js/blob/master/src/auto/i...

When I realized angular actually parses views and module definitions and rewrites them, I lost interest in trying to figure out what was going on under the hood, and decided to stick with backbone. While the angular devs are obviously brilliant, the complexity is horrifying, and I don't want to debug my application code when I can't reason about the framework's internals.

Re: Complexity Creeps: Why I'm Concerned for the Future of Angular.js

#50

Post by camus2 »

AngularJS is not complex , when I think complex , I think SpringMVC or Struts complexity. AngularJS has problems ,but complexity is not one of them, definetly.

Seems like JS programmers who only know JS think they can get away with ignoring patterns like dependency injection, Guess what, in order for code to be maintainable and testable it needs it.

Front-end is about GUI dev,and that's where OOP shines. It's high time for JS folks to read classics like "Design Patterns" books, and embrace SOLID principles , or AngularJS wont even help when developping their so called "fairly large" apps.

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