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Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

theguardian.com

41–50 of 71 posts

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#41
post #10

Nothing in London is quite so profitable as property development. I suppose this is the continuation of the process of sweeping away the derelict bits of Hackney for the 2012 Olympics. It would be nice if economic activity wasn't quite so concentrated in unaffordable London. But I can feel the wave of money washing over the built environment even out here in Cambridge ("Silicon Fen"); it's just about commutable to No…

Industry goes where it wants - if we try and stop these companies from basing themselves in London, the competition isn't other parts of the UK, it's Berlin or Singapore or Shanghai. Central planning of industry has a pretty poor history.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#42
post #10

Nothing in London is quite so profitable as property development. I suppose this is the continuation of the process of sweeping away the derelict bits of Hackney for the 2012 Olympics. It would be nice if economic activity wasn't quite so concentrated in unaffordable London. But I can feel the wave of money washing over the built environment even out here in Cambridge ("Silicon Fen"); it's just about commutable to No…

"I'm fleeing to Edinburgh"

And Edinburgh isn't exactly cheap.... (compared to London it is though!)

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#43
This is not some weird oddity due to council mismanagement, it's just the latest example of one of the greatest naturally occurring scams in history.

The process that's occurring is Ricardo's law of rent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Rent#The_Law_of_Rent

It's counter intuitive, but brilliant once you realise how it works. Put simply, when a company makes more money due to the location they're in, the landlord gets all of the extra profit, not the company that does the work. Every time the company's profits rise, the rent will go up by the same amount. Free money without working if you own land, and very bad for capitalism.

In the case of Old Street, it used to be that there was little advantage to being there, so rents were cheap (not much competition). That attracted lots of startup types and now, the area confers a significant advantage due to the network of companies and people. The choice for a new startup is :

a) Old Street, where recruitment costs (for example) will be lower, or

b) Somewhere Rubbish, where you pay e.g. an extra 20k per year for recruitment.

If the rents are the same, everyone will want Old street for the 20k advantage, so the landlords play them off against each other: the offices go to the highest bidder. Whilst the extra rent you pay to be there is less than 20k, it makes sense to pay it as you're still ahead, so people keep upping their bids until the rent reaches ($rent_for_rubbish_place + 20k). The landlord gets it all for doing nothing!

It's a scam because it operates outside of free market capitalism: you can't manufacture more land at Old street roundabout (or move it there from elsewhere), so supply does not increase when the price rises. Not a free market. Also no jobs created by the price rises.

The solution to the scam is land value tax (LVT), which would reclaim the unearned money from the landlords (whilst leaving them their fairly earned money from providing the buildings). LVT done right would make corporation tax unnecessary whilst causing no price rises and no job losses. A massive boost for the economy. Seriously. No hyperbole - it works counter intuitively due to the fact that its not a free market in the first place.

Winston Churchill was strongly in favour of LVT and described land as 'the greatest of all monopolies'. He thought that taxing it was one of the most important political ideas of the century, so it warrants a bit of reading: http://www.landvaluetax.org/current-affairs-comment/winston-...

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#44
post #15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, silicon roundabout is at 5 min walking distance of the heart of the city of London, so any kind of success would have priced them out. The council is doing what their own success would have been doing in a few years. It would have required tremendous effort by the government to maintain the right balance of cheap business place and accommodation required to let the community survive. 100 meters away from one of…

We have had a lot of Silicon-whatsits in the UK. Silicon Fen in Cambridgeshire and Silicon Glen somewhere in Scotland. There's a big electronics scene in Bristol. Tho' this is something that it's impossible for governments to do, really, all the money will be creamed off by "advisers" and "consultants", small companies given impossible bureaucratic hoops to jump through, etc. The best thing the government can do is j…

Acorn machines were great.... ah happy days. The A3010s with their stylish green function keys!

On a serious note, I dispute that government can't have a positive impact in stimulating the technology industry in the UK. In fact if we held on to more manufacturing businesses (through state-ownership, tax cuts etc.) we'd have a more diverse and robust economy. But the current government's so called schemes to foster business and innovation are typical of this administration - there's little substance to them at all. And successive British governments have failed to truly work with businesses and really listen to their needs rather than launching grand initiatives without prior consultation to real business owners.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#45

This is what is wrong with the UK. Bubble property prices all over the country. And relative to incomes it is ALL OVER the country. Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? And if you will not or can not pay bubble prices for property you have to rent, live in poorly maintain…

> Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights.

Never seen it put so pithily, and yes, that's exactly how it feels.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#46
post #10

Nothing in London is quite so profitable as property development. I suppose this is the continuation of the process of sweeping away the derelict bits of Hackney for the 2012 Olympics. It would be nice if economic activity wasn't quite so concentrated in unaffordable London. But I can feel the wave of money washing over the built environment even out here in Cambridge ("Silicon Fen"); it's just about commutable to No…

The lack of a combination of affordable property and decent jobs in areas within a reasonable distance is definitely causing increasing problems in this country, and only worsening social inequality. Remote working is one solution that I think very slowly will become more mainstream. I mean really why do start-ups have to grow in a 'technology hub'? Most small/start-up companies in these areas I know of rarely collaborate or seem to benefit from proximity with each other.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#47

I've worked in the area since 2004. Although I agree with the points he is making, I don't really see the author coming up with any solutions. The problems are rooted in the right to private property. I'm also fairly certain that Hackney have an issue with corruption. The way to flip properties in the area is to buy up a building with a B1 use (office), then apply to planning permission to build a residential penthou…

[deleted]

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#48
This is nothing new and its been like that since the early 80s when Thatcher sold off the council housing stock at rock bottom prices. An area of London gets popular, money moves in pushing prices up and people out. City government does nothing. Rinse and repeat. All this has happened before, all this will happen again.

At the end of the 90s it was Notting Hill, now its Shoreditch, Spitalfields and Whitechapel with the gentrification wave pushing itself out east with Bethnal Green next in line.

Ultimately this will be the demise of the UK economy as all the money and jobs will focus on the southeast leaving the rest to fend for themselves.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#49
post #45

This is what is wrong with the UK. Bubble property prices all over the country. And relative to incomes it is ALL OVER the country. Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Did you know in the uk if you rent you can be evicted for no reason at all? And if you will not or can not pay bubble prices for property you have to rent, live in poorly maintain…

> Everyone over 40 has a buy to let portfolio and those under 40 are stuck in rented property with few rights. Never seen it put so pithily, and yes, that's exactly how it feels.

Norway is mostly the same these days. Maybe it's a Northern European phenomenon. Of course, there is an upside to this: By renting, you are not taking on the risk of a fall in real estate prices. But I'm not sure if the fewer rights make up for it. You can't be "evicted" for no reason over here, but to my understanding it is legal to have renting contracts with a 1-month notice to termination. So it's more or less the same situation.

Re: Cory Doctorow: How startups of Silicon Roundabout are gradually being flattened

#50
post #41
post #10

Nothing in London is quite so profitable as property development. I suppose this is the continuation of the process of sweeping away the derelict bits of Hackney for the 2012 Olympics. It would be nice if economic activity wasn't quite so concentrated in unaffordable London. But I can feel the wave of money washing over the built environment even out here in Cambridge ("Silicon Fen"); it's just about commutable to No…

Industry goes where it wants - if we try and stop these companies from basing themselves in London, the competition isn't other parts of the UK, it's Berlin or Singapore or Shanghai. Central planning of industry has a pretty poor history.

It's less about industry than about foreign investors seeing London property as a store of value. There's a whole class of people living in properties as "guardians" at discounted rent simply to avoid the property seeming abandoned:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230454950...

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