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How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

theage.com.au

41–50 of 65 posts

Re: How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

#41
post #38

Australians despise the U.S. and The Age is simply airing the rank and fetid feelings of the people that read their newspaper. Trust me, I know - I was born and raised in Australia, and because of the country's heavy Socialist/British background and identity, we were taught to hate everything about America. My wife and I lived in Melbourne from 2009-2012, and she suffered horrible discrimination for being from the US…

I think this is a bit extreme. Firstly, this Melbourne Age piece is syndicated from The Telegraph, a British newspaper from my home country. As a regular visitor to Australia, with relatives living there, I had presumed that the article was syndicated even before I reached the byline. This due to a clarity of language unusual in locally written newspaper articles. It sounds atrocious, the treatment of your wife, and…

On the other hand Mel Gibson was Aussie and became American. He's not claimed anymore.

According to Wikipedia, Mel Gibson was born in the US to American parents and moved to Australia when he was 12. Somehow I remembered that factoid when I read your comment :)

Re: How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

#42
Why does every single one of these stories always leave out the most responsible counterparty in these matters... the landlords.

The tech workers are just showing up with buying power. The decision of whether or not to pursue ellis act evictions is not carried out by tech workers, but the San Francisco landlords who are trying to free up their rent controlled units to be able to jack up the price.

Many of these landlords are either San Franciscans who still live in the city or those that grew up here, but moved out to the supports and now just manage rentals in the city. So at the end of the day its fellow San Franciscans to whom these protestors should direct their anger.

Re: How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

#43
post #41
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a bit extreme. Firstly, this Melbourne Age piece is syndicated from The Telegraph, a British newspaper from my home country. As a regular visitor to Australia, with relatives living there, I had presumed that the article was syndicated even before I reached the byline. This due to a clarity of language unusual in locally written newspaper articles. It sounds atrocious, the treatment of your wife, and…

On the other hand Mel Gibson was Aussie and became American. He's not claimed anymore. According to Wikipedia, Mel Gibson was born in the US to American parents and moved to Australia when he was 12. Somehow I remembered that factoid when I read your comment :)

Thanks. I didn't fill in that detail. I thought only his mother was American, and I should always check my facts before I post anything here. So in, and then out, but oddly, out in a similar way that Rupert Murdoch is out.

Pride and Prejudice.

Re: How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

#44
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but the players deeply love this game, and play it ruthlessly. What then?

The people being targeted by the hate are low- and mid-level engineers at companies like Google and Twitter, who have nothing to do with San Francisco's absurd housing policy or the economic inequality in general. They might be better-paid peons, but they're still peons. They aren't responsible for "this game" and many of them detest it. (Would you want to have no savings at age 37 because, despite your relatively hi…

>The First Estate of Silicon Valley (here, including San Francisco) are the highly influential angels, VCs, and corporate executives who can force acquisitions.

That would mean the Zeroth Estate are the landlords. Remember, Google proposed to Mountain View to build their own damn neighborhoods of townhouses and apartments for housing their own employees. They got denied. The city council somehow felt that the current situation was better than letting a company, God help them, actually get some housing built for all those employees they hire.

Re: How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

#45
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ethics of the power players in Silicon Valley are far worse than those on Wall Street. (I don't know dick about Hollywood other than its reputation.) Wall Streeters are greedy, but they don't go out of their way to ruin peoples' careers (except in the movies). They'll do a lot of things to get that $10 million bonus, but they don't hold long-term grudges and wreck careers of people who've since flown away from th…

Whenever I read HN and see an extremely anti-startup comment I always know it's from you. For a while I'd get angry reading your comments, but I'm actually curious- What on earth happened between you and startups to make you think they're a huge scam to take advantage of the unsuspecting? I'm a nobody who came to Silicon Valley and has done relatively well for himself as a founder. I've seen many, many other founders…

He's not the only anti-startup commenter here. I'm curious, have you ever worked at a startup as a programmer, not as a founder? Sometimes, it's easier to see the downside of a system when you're not the one profiting from it.

Re: How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

#46
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ethics of the power players in Silicon Valley are far worse than those on Wall Street. (I don't know dick about Hollywood other than its reputation.) Wall Streeters are greedy, but they don't go out of their way to ruin peoples' careers (except in the movies). They'll do a lot of things to get that $10 million bonus, but they don't hold long-term grudges and wreck careers of people who've since flown away from th…

Whenever I read HN and see an extremely anti-startup comment I always know it's from you. For a while I'd get angry reading your comments, but I'm actually curious- What on earth happened between you and startups to make you think they're a huge scam to take advantage of the unsuspecting? I'm a nobody who came to Silicon Valley and has done relatively well for himself as a founder. I've seen many, many other founders…

I've written about it at length already and don't choose to relive it in detail, but I worked for an extremely unethical startup.

In 3 months, I saw... bait-and-switch hiring all over the place, multiple people hired into the same management role, and (after I left) a CEO who spent months trying to destroy my reputation.

At 3 months, I was brought into a room with HR and the CTO. Upper management wanted to get rid of early hires with "too much" equity and wanted to pull my technical credibility to justify their firing, but the documents I was asked to sign constituted perjury (blaming people for nonexistent technical shortfalls, claiming that I directly managed people I didn't even know, etc.) Some of the claims would have required revising my past and saying I'd consulted (a consulting VP/Eng, I can't make this shit up) with the company before the start date (in order to make the rest of the story check out). They fired me for refusing to do it. When I pointed out that I had grounds for a lawsuit, the CEO threatened to pull family connections and bribe judges.

I'm sorry, but I don't do "We're giving you 10 reports, and your job is to fuck over all of them over the next two months." I may or may not be a leader (that's not for me to decide) but I am surely not a henchman.

This is one of the VC darlings and although it was almost a down round (barely above flat) and dilution was heavy, they raised again in late 2013 (almost 2 years after that happened). Granted, this last VC round is essentially a severance, giving the company a couple years to run on fumes while its executives find better things to do with their lives. But I didn't get a severance, so why should they?

Now, I think companies that are that shitty are pretty rare, even in the VC-funded world. That might be bottom 1% overall and bottom-10% in the VC-funded world. Even most startups and ex-startups (e.g. Google) aren't nearly as bad, but there is a certain crappiness to the tech world in terms of how regular people are treated. Companies care a lot about image (being sexy, "cool", VC darlings, whatever) but not about long-standing reputation-- at least, on the latter, not enough to seriously value doing the right thing.

The old Silicon Valley was a pay-it-forward economy. Even when you separated, you were good to other people. If you had to cut people in your startup, you introduced them to investors. People helped each other out. You didn't fuck over a talented engineer, because you might want to work with him 5 or 10 years later. That's gone now.

I do have to offer this disclaimer, though. I never worked on the West Coast. Maybe it's different out there, but the things I've heard convince me that it's not that different, and I've definitely met dodgy characters in California.

Day to day, what angers me is the general lack of respect for engineers in the "new" Silicon Valley. I'm talking about the startups offering pathetic equity slices, and about the companies that are actually very business-driven posing as "tech companies". Engineering and research talents aren't really valued, despise the mouth-honor paid to them.

Re: How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

#47
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ethics of the power players in Silicon Valley are far worse than those on Wall Street. (I don't know dick about Hollywood other than its reputation.) Wall Streeters are greedy, but they don't go out of their way to ruin peoples' careers (except in the movies). They'll do a lot of things to get that $10 million bonus, but they don't hold long-term grudges and wreck careers of people who've since flown away from th…

"Wall Streeters are greedy, but they don't go out of their way to ruin peoples' careers..." How confident are you about this claim?

Well, I've worked on both.

Wall Street people are ruthless and greedy. If the trade they want to do means getting up at 3:00 am (or, even, getting the team up) for the European open, they'll do it. They want to win, and they play hardball. However, Wall Street's rules are well-defined (unlike in VC) and most of the obviously unethical things have been made illegal. Wall Street people, for the most part, don't like being in jail and would rather avoid that. Most people on Wall Street are (although ruthless) actually ethical. There are exceptions but they tend to take a lot of collaboration (see: housing bubble) and it's actually hard to get people like that to "conspire" on anything. It just has to happen, emergently, and it only happens once every 10 years or so.

See, predictable, greedy, and mostly ethical people (with a few unethical ones in the mix, as anywhere) aren't that dangerous a set. If someone costs you your job, you get another one. No big deal. It's true that you have about a 20% per year chance of getting laid off on the street, but it's not stigmatized and your co-workers (and often your managers) will go to bat to help you get a better next job. (Silicon Valley probably has the same 20%/year job-loss rate, but startups refuse to have an honest lay off and mask those firings as "performance"-related or "cultured fit", meaning there's no severance and the startup's reputation is preserved at the expense of the ex-employee.)

In the Valley, people may not be as open about liking money, but they are more hung up on power and, at high levels, it's like high school. That's why social proof is so important in raising the first round of funding: because it's essentially adolescence all over again. The stakes are lower (Silicon Valley can't tank the economy in the way that Wall Street can) but the petty personal grudges are more common and people are much more willing to go out of their way just to hurt someone they dislike.

It used to be, in the Valley, that people went out of their way to help each other. If a startup CEO had to lay people off, he introduced the laid-off people to investors so they could start their own companies (presuming they didn't compete directly with him). Now, that same reputation economy exists but, instead of it being powered by people helping each other out, it's powered by people pushing each other down to solidify their own positions.

Re: How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

#48
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wall Streeters are greedy, but they don't go out of their way to ruin peoples' careers..." How confident are you about this claim?

I would argue that Wall Streeters go out of their way to ruin peoples' lives, not just careers, in the name of greed.

I would disagree. Often the enemy is complexity.

I don't think anyone sat down and said, "I'm going to create a housing bubble, tank the economy, have people forced out of houses they couldn't afford because of said bubble, and cost millions of people (including myself, with high likelihood) their jobs".

Wall Street has had some very negative effects on the economy, but I don't think those were intended. There wasn't malice. It's just that we, as humans, are terrible at handling complexity beyond certain levels. Take one of those now-infamous mortgage-backed securities. To analyze the thing, you need an economist, a mathematician to model it, a programmer or two to write (and test!) the modelling code, business people who know the involved counterparties and how they will behave under distress-- that is, will our counterparty make good, or default?-- and lawyers (because the damn things are, at the end of the day, contracts). The things are dangerous because no single person on earth holds even half the knowledge to know what the thing is actually worth. But (as in government) that complexity is the product of creep, not (in most cases) intentional malice.

Re: How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They highlight on the extreme wealth of certain founders/executives, yet direct their wrath (and stones) on the entire tech industry. Not even, the protestors manage to direct their wrath at the employees low enough level to be riding the shuttles. It's pretty ironic seeing the ostensible radical leftists following the lead of the Valley Wag's middle brow demagoguery.

employees low enough level to be riding the shuttles Yes, SF's banking-class and politicians are loving this. The middle-class is distracted fighting their middle-class peers.

Are you really unable to see the problem is not "the banking class" and a few politicians. The problem is thousands of developers making much more than normal people, and a way too big fraction of them wanting to live right smack downtown San Francisco ?

Or are you truly unable to see that you are not making anything remotely near average wages ? That you are not middle class, and certainly also not working as hard as the average middle classer ? You get sundays off, for one.

The result of these actions is people getting thrown into the streets by their landlords. Here's a tip : there does not exist an argument that will make people OK with that. Stop looking for it.

Re: How the world came to hate Silicon Valley

#50
post #15

Sean Parker, the founding president of Facebook, spent a reported $US10 million on his wedding Wow, how unbelievably arrogant. Spending his money however the fuck he wants? Paying people to render him services of their own free will? What an asshole. He must've forgot signing that social contract with angry poor radicals that once you hit $(whatever today's immoral amount of money is) you no longer have the right to…

People getting thrown out of their houses due to lack of money (and lack of earning capability) are complaining about other people spending massive amounts on frivolous uses ?

I am amazed. Wait ... no I'm not. I'm even inclined to call those claims justified.

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