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What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

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Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#41

Post by balls187 »

cup wrote: post #12

This has been the third article on HN recently about the police. Historically it has been minority groups that only see this side of police activity. Now that upper middle class white individuals have experienced it though Its interesting to read the comments people are leaving. For the record: I believe his advice is terrible for any person of lower socio economic background and especially for a person of colour. Th…

I wonder why that middle class, and upper middle class white individuals are now experiencing an increase in police.

Perhaps it's resentment of the widening income gap between 20-30 somethings in the tech industry and those in the service industry?

Another HN article referenced a Bay Area police officer making a remark about being a "wannabe billionaire."

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#42

Post by rdl »

stoolpigeon wrote: post #36
malandrew wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really need to redesign officer uniforms so that the badge number is inconspicuous the same way numbers of football and soccer jerseys are inconspicuous. It should be possible to identify a police office by their badge number from any angle once you're within 10-20 feet (i.e. it should be on the front, back and both sleeves of their uniform). Cameras should be able to track officers the same way that officers can…

you mean conspicuous - inconspicuous means "not clearly visible or attracting attention".

I thought he was being ironic.

"I want x to be subtle in the way that a shotgun to the face is subtle" i.e. not subtle at all.

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#43

Post by pak »

malandrew wrote: post #33
chimeracoder wrote: post #7

> “Is that a Muslim or Hipster beard?” by a crew of three NYPD officers in Times Square. I'm very curious to hear the full story behind this one. On a separate note - I used to work in Chelsea[0]. Two or three days of the week, as I was leaving the subway, I would see NYPD questioning and/or frisking a young, black man or women. I saw this happen for months, and never once was the person being questioned/frisked whit…

We really need to redesign officer uniforms so that the badge number is inconspicuous the same way numbers of football and soccer jerseys are inconspicuous. It should be possible to identify a police office by their badge number from any angle once you're within 10-20 feet (i.e. it should be on the front, back and both sleeves of their uniform). Cameras should be able to track officers the same way that officers can…

Assuming you meant "conspicuous", the problem with this idea is that when such officers want to participate in less than stellar behavior, they will obscure the numbers (by putting on a jacket, etc.). This could be justified to their superiors for any number of "tactical" reasons. After all, many cops regularly go on duty in unmarked cars or in plainclothes.

Cops are supposed to cite drivers for license plate covers and I see them out in NY the time--how can we expect them to enforce the display of their own numbers?

The only part of the uniform that police can't easily modify is the badge, which is also the part that unambiguously proves that they are police when necessary. (Not that most citizens would know how to authenticate the badge of their local police, much less those of all the federal LEAs [1]).

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Federal_law_enforcemen...

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#44

Post by ted7780 »

I have lived in nyc for 23 years. The police used to be much cooler. The would chat with parade goers, joke around and compared to the harness bulls in Chicago they were great. After 9/11 the department changed. Meaner more suspicious and unfriendly. 10 citations a month is pretty low. One every three days. You could write that in ten minutes in the intersection outside my window. My dad was a cop. It's a hard fucking job. Keep that in mind.

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#45

Post by rdl »

paulannesley wrote: post #39
ihuman wrote: post #35

Why is this on HN? What does this have to do with technology/startups?

“On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.” — http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Then again; “Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, […]”

I posted it because it's Sunday and there wasn't much going on. I wouldn't put it up as one of the finest HN submissions ever, but I think there's some value in "this could happen to you" and "this is what you should do if".

The piece itself was well written and relatively apolitical and non-threatening.

The "tech" aspect is the "fsck the police" part -- I think Nick is going to go into some ways to use technology to 1) help the police do what they should be doing, better 2) help the police not do what they shouldn't be doing 3) help users/clients/customers/victims of the police. And so should other HN people. Video recording seems like the lowest hanging fruit -- figuring out how to do that both safely and reliably is a good problem to solve. If I were GoPro, I'd donate $25mm or so to developing best practices for this, and then make another $5b selling GoPro-Police cameras over the next decade.

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#46

Post by rdl »

pak wrote: post #43
malandrew wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really need to redesign officer uniforms so that the badge number is inconspicuous the same way numbers of football and soccer jerseys are inconspicuous. It should be possible to identify a police office by their badge number from any angle once you're within 10-20 feet (i.e. it should be on the front, back and both sleeves of their uniform). Cameras should be able to track officers the same way that officers can…

Assuming you meant "conspicuous", the problem with this idea is that when such officers want to participate in less than stellar behavior, they will obscure the numbers (by putting on a jacket, etc.). This could be justified to their superiors for any number of "tactical" reasons. After all, many cops regularly go on duty in unmarked cars or in plainclothes. Cops are supposed to cite drivers for license plate covers…

IMO, raid jackets should have the police ID number written in the same font as POLICE (or other agency) on the back, and on the front in 2-3" high numbers.

The headband of a uniform cap would also work well in addition to a name tape.

There should also be a requirement that police identify themselves by name/number verbally in interactions when it is practicable to do so; e.g. "You are under arrest, I'm Officer Johnson badge #3898390 of the NYPD, ..." Coupled with audio and video recording devices, it helps create a record.

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#48

Post by amagumori »

i'm inclined to agree with the first comment on the article. if the author was not a privileged, professional-looking white guy, his outcome could have quite likely been much worse. i disagree with his naive conclusion (based on a sample size of one instance of getting arrested for an extremely minor infraction) that the NYPD are largely "good people charged with bad policing tactics". the treatment of minority groups such as chicanos, african-americans, and muslims by the NYPD is well documented and does not reflect a police force full of good people. :-/

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#49

Post by dredmorbius »

stoolpigeon wrote: post #36
malandrew wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really need to redesign officer uniforms so that the badge number is inconspicuous the same way numbers of football and soccer jerseys are inconspicuous. It should be possible to identify a police office by their badge number from any angle once you're within 10-20 feet (i.e. it should be on the front, back and both sleeves of their uniform). Cameras should be able to track officers the same way that officers can…

you mean conspicuous - inconspicuous means "not clearly visible or attracting attention".

I suspect this was ironic understatement. E.g., "As subtle as a roundhouse kick to the head."

Re: What I learned from an unfortunate incident with the NYPD

#50

Post by kevinskii »

cup wrote: post #12

This has been the third article on HN recently about the police. Historically it has been minority groups that only see this side of police activity. Now that upper middle class white individuals have experienced it though Its interesting to read the comments people are leaving. For the record: I believe his advice is terrible for any person of lower socio economic background and especially for a person of colour. Th…

> The number 1 rule when interacting with police should be you have no rights.

As a former Los Angeles sheriff's deputy who agrees with the majority of sentiments in this thread, I can confidently say that your broad statement is nonsense. Everyone, not just upper middle class whites, should know and assert their rights in police encounters.

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