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The Bay Area

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Re: The Bay Area

#41

Post by Noted »

carsongross wrote: post #39

>I can’t help noticing that 100% of the people I see who are building the future and making the big bucks are ethnically Chinese, Indian, or white. And 100% of the people I see who are washing floors or guarding doors or serving fast food are black and Mexican and Central-American. Hilariously, blacks and hispanics make up less than 2.5% of Vancouver's population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouve…

Did you actually read that article? Or did I massively misread it. He never talked about blacks and hispanics in Vancouver. "Our own racist stench is that Canada’s original inhabitants no longer number among what I called our “main ethnic groups”" But, please, lecture us more on an article you didn't read

Re: The Bay Area

#42

Post by Noted »

sxtxixtxcxh wrote: post #40
Noted wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing apples and oranges. If there was institutional murder and fraud then your comparison might make some sense. If there there was institutional murder, say every left-handed person was killed at birth, and you did nothing about it because you're right handed then he's claiming you're actively part of that institutional murder. While I don't necessarily agree, there are differences between the types whic…

we DO have institutional murder. how else could you classify a death penalty?

True, however having an institution against criminals convicted of capital offences is still an apples and oranges comparison to racism/sexism. No one is born a murderer.

Re: The Bay Area

#43

Post by ahomescu1 »

nemothekid wrote: post #6

>I can’t help noticing that 100% of the people I see who are building the future and making the big bucks are ethnically Chinese, Indian, or white. And 100% of the people I see who are washing floors or guarding doors or serving fast food are black and Mexican and Central-American. Painting this social issue as racism is incorrect and using racism as a boogeyman, sweeps the real issues under the rug. I'm confident th…

> I wonder how many Indian or Chinese founders are actually immigrants from relatively well todo families that could afford to send someone half way across the world.

From personal experience, I can say that it's not that expensive to send someone "half way across the world" (I grew up in Romania, but currently live in California). What is hard is immigration/getting a visa, but you can't really fix that with more money (unless you're going for the investor visa, which very few do).

Also, it's really easy to apply for BigCo (Google, Apple, Facebook) jobs in the Bay Area from outside the US (you get phone interviews at first, the get flown over for on-site interviews on the company's dime). It's really not money that's stopping people from getting "in".

Re: The Bay Area

#44

Post by ahomescu1 »

mturmon wrote: post #32
angryindianguy wrote: post #16

>I can’t help noticing that 100% of the people I see who are building the future and making the big bucks are ethnically Chinese, Indian, or white. And 100% of the people I see who are washing floors or guarding doors or serving fast food are black and Mexican and Central-American. I am sorry I used to think that Tim Bray was a smart guy. Hell Indians in India are far more poorer than African Americans. Now if some i…

This is such an un-informed comment. It is completely ignorant of American history. You understand that American game-rigging like redlining, and unequal drug sentencing, and racial profiling, exist now and/or have existed in the lifetimes of most adults today? Sure, some people get lucky, or work really hard. But on average, the game is rigged. If you want to overcome your ignorance of this topic, you might want to…

> Sure, some people get lucky, or work really hard. But on average, the game is rigged.

It's rigged really badly against immigrants (counting H1B workers as immigrants too) as well.

Re: The Bay Area

#45

Post by rootedbox »

jedmeyers wrote: post #27
rootedbox wrote: post #22

I'm hispanic living in the mission, and for a long time I also had 2 black roommates. We've had many conversations about direct blatant racism, and also indirect just people being ignorant in what they say bigotry. Of course a lot of non-minorities have issues understanding the difference in racism, and bigotry. This being said. What is brought up in this article is racism. Specifically the institution of racism. If…

What actions do you propose Silicon Valley should take to fix the issues of racism?

Short term.. make sure the race and sex of people filling the jobs at your company are of the are of the same ratio as the available pool. If x % of a group (sex / race) is graduating from school with the degree for a given job then for that job your company should have the same ratio. If your company is not meeting that ratio then there is an issue with how your company hires. You shouldn't hire too meet those percents the system by which you hire should naturally hit those percents(i.e. the institution). example of what can be done... Have your HR remove names from resumes before they are sent for review. This will remove gender cultural race identifiers.

If men for a job are getting paid more than women.. Don't put the blame on women for not asking for more. Fix your compensation system to be equal independent of sex / cultural background / racial background.. ie.. this job pays x if you meet these qualifications not more or less.. just this set amount.

Make the work environment feel safe. If you are in the minority it is a stressful enough knowing others can't share what you feel. I can only imagine the stress of being the only female in a large group of engineers. Let alone if one asks you on a date. Make strict rules about fraternization.. what is and isn't acceptable.

long term... fix the schools.. if you treat kids the same independent of their culture / race / sex ... and they have opportunity to the same quality of schools.. then individuals for a certain job will start to match the general public.

The myth that men are more likely to be engineers because thats what guys are interested in.. Is just that.. a myth. People are interested in things because they have had access to learn about said things.

Re: The Bay Area

#46

Post by Noted »

rootedbox wrote: post #45
jedmeyers wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What actions do you propose Silicon Valley should take to fix the issues of racism?

Short term.. make sure the race and sex of people filling the jobs at your company are of the are of the same ratio as the available pool. If x % of a group (sex / race) is graduating from school with the degree for a given job then for that job your company should have the same ratio. If your company is not meeting that ratio then there is an issue with how your company hires. You shouldn't hire too meet those perce…

Your short term plans aren't all that short term. Most of what you describe is obviously the ideal that society should strive towards, but incredibly difficult to actually do. That's not to say we shouldn't work towards it, and you gave 1-2 very concrete examples, but it really depends on your definition of how long "short term" is whether or not it's feasible in that timeframe. "The myth that men are more likely to be engineers because thats what guys are interested in.. Is just that.. a myth. People are interested in things because they have had access to learn about said things." is absolutely correct.

Re: The Bay Area

#47

Post by Kroem3r »

smackfu wrote: post #7

Oh boy. He probably should have just let it go.

Ya, no doubt. But perhaps he took it as an opportunity as he was stepping away from prominence to do something positive with it. A favorite example being Eisenhower's farewell address.

Re: The Bay Area

#48

Post by savvyraccoon »

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #24
savvyraccoon wrote: post #8

The same "racism" in Vancouver: "Most of Metro Vancouver’s Filipinos value being near transit hubs – since many need to travel inexpensively to low-tomiddle-wage jobs as nannies, cleaners, seniors care aids, security officials, service clerks, short-order cooks and practical nurses" http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2011/10/17/ethnic-mapping-3-fi...

To be fair, people of all income levels and races use the Skytrain in Vancouver, and the most dense parts of the city are all clustered around it.

The point is not Skytrain, but Filiponos who work on low-tomiddle-wage jobs.

Re: The Bay Area

#49

Post by jedmeyers »

rootedbox wrote: post #45
jedmeyers wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What actions do you propose Silicon Valley should take to fix the issues of racism?

Short term.. make sure the race and sex of people filling the jobs at your company are of the are of the same ratio as the available pool. If x % of a group (sex / race) is graduating from school with the degree for a given job then for that job your company should have the same ratio. If your company is not meeting that ratio then there is an issue with how your company hires. You shouldn't hire too meet those perce…

About that "myth". I had 60/40 ratio of girls to boys in my high school class. They all had access to Comp Science classes and computers and everything else that I had, but none of the girls wanted to become engineers, me and four other guys did. So please, do not say that girls are interested in engineering but not pursuing that interest just because they do not have access. Thanks to mass culture that sees guys interested in technology as dorks and "not cool" I have a lot of doubts in the claim that lack of access is the culprit of the perceived discrepancy. At least in the US and Europe boys and girls have similar access to technology, and no one is taking computers away from girls.

Re: The Bay Area

#50

Post by smackfu »

Noted wrote: post #41
carsongross wrote: post #39

>I can’t help noticing that 100% of the people I see who are building the future and making the big bucks are ethnically Chinese, Indian, or white. And 100% of the people I see who are washing floors or guarding doors or serving fast food are black and Mexican and Central-American. Hilariously, blacks and hispanics make up less than 2.5% of Vancouver's population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouve…

Did you actually read that article? Or did I massively misread it. He never talked about blacks and hispanics in Vancouver. "Our own racist stench is that Canada’s original inhabitants no longer number among what I called our “main ethnic groups”" But, please, lecture us more on an article you didn't read

But then he says it's not the bad kind of racism, so Vancouver is still better: "So yeah, it sucks, but it’s not a systemic thing you see in every bloody burger joint and cleaning crew."
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