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Bringing Peer-to-Peer Streaming to the World.

swirl-project.org

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Re: Bringing Peer-to-Peer Streaming to the World.

#41

Post by fungi »

http://www.sopcast.org/ has been around for years (decade?)

Whenever Olympics or world cup rolls around ill download and watch.

Found it to be pretty bloody good, too complicated for your mum but fine anyone with a little computer savvy.

But it is 2014, we should be well on the way to awesome idiot proof webrtc goodness.

Re: Bringing Peer-to-Peer Streaming to the World.

#42

Post by nl »

na_da wrote: post #37
jsonified wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Dan, good points -- but they're not the scenarios I'm referring to, and they're extremes around a perfectly usable for 90% of use cases & users. If Joe wants to stream to Barney and a handful of people then his laptop is fine. If he want to push 10k, then obviously he'll need some help, the maths doesn't stack up any other way. Your original example (and my response to it) mentioned a pair of users with a need for…

Again, PPSP is a transport protocol, not just a live video stream. There are applications even in areas where bandwidth is 100Kb/sc or worse. So PPSP is not just for video streaming. What would other possible applications be?

Voice comms?

Re: Bringing Peer-to-Peer Streaming to the World.

#43

Post by jsonified »

jamii wrote: post #40

I had some fun implementing binmaps a while ago - http://scattered-thoughts.net/blog/2012/01/03/binmaps-compre... I originally encountered them in http://libswift.org/ which was the predecessor to http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ppsp-peer-protoco... . Both are very elegant simplifications of bittorrent and the IETF draft is pretty readable.

Jamii I've seen your ocaml implementations, your code has been very instructive - thanks!

Re: Bringing Peer-to-Peer Streaming to the World.

#44

Post by jan_g »

wmf wrote: post #36
DanBlake wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 30 seconds is not because twitch sucks. They do encoding/decoding/sampling And honestly, if you were streaming a 1080p video over p2p, I see no physical way that it would be below a 30s delay if there was 1k+ people watching it. You are limited by peers outbound bandwidth and for most in the US that is going to be sub 5MB/s. With that in mind, you can really only have a maximum of 5 or less streams per user. That…

Can you explain why delay matters? AFAIK TV usually has over 1 minute of delay for live events.

TV has usually about 5-6s delay for live events, add a second or two for HD content. 1 minute delay might be in case of legal issues (where broadcasters are bound by law to add a delay) or some very convoluted video signal distribution.

Delay matters most in case of live betting and live score. There is whole industry around this, I am sure you've heard about bwin.com or bet365.com.

Re: Bringing Peer-to-Peer Streaming to the World.

#45

Post by gritzko »

na_da wrote: post #37
jsonified wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Dan, good points -- but they're not the scenarios I'm referring to, and they're extremes around a perfectly usable for 90% of use cases & users. If Joe wants to stream to Barney and a handful of people then his laptop is fine. If he want to push 10k, then obviously he'll need some help, the maths doesn't stack up any other way. Your original example (and my response to it) mentioned a pair of users with a need for…

Again, PPSP is a transport protocol, not just a live video stream. There are applications even in areas where bandwidth is 100Kb/sc or worse. So PPSP is not just for video streaming. What would other possible applications be?

PPSP as such was designed to have shorter init cycles. So, in principle, it is suitable for smaller assets (federated CDN, that sort of stuff). By the way I do not understand the "servers vs P2P" story. Why not use servers in a PPSP network? The point is pulling the content from arbitrary sources (any sources available), not to get rid of datacenters.

Re: Bringing Peer-to-Peer Streaming to the World.

#47

Post by warcode »

wmf wrote: post #36
DanBlake wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 30 seconds is not because twitch sucks. They do encoding/decoding/sampling And honestly, if you were streaming a 1080p video over p2p, I see no physical way that it would be below a 30s delay if there was 1k+ people watching it. You are limited by peers outbound bandwidth and for most in the US that is going to be sub 5MB/s. With that in mind, you can really only have a maximum of 5 or less streams per user. That…

Can you explain why delay matters? AFAIK TV usually has over 1 minute of delay for live events.

Delay matters when a twitch.tv streamer is interacting with their viewers through the stream chat.

Delay matters when multiple people are trying to watch the same stream "together", but end up seeing wildly different points of time in that stream.

Re: Bringing Peer-to-Peer Streaming to the World.

#48

Post by anonymousDan »

jsonified wrote: post #29
jmspring wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which working group will the webrtc tie in be discussed?

the PPSP one, if you're going to be around at IETF let's discuss there. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/agenda/ppsp/

Can anyone who is interested go along and sit in on those sessions? I live in London and that sounds interesting.

Re: Bringing Peer-to-Peer Streaming to the World.

#49

Post by panabee »

blantonl wrote: post #39
panabee wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how would you monetize?

In this case, this is like asking how you would monetize TCP. This specification is a transport protocol and could apply to multiple use cases, not including video.

i was responding to the parent's assertion about monetizing, just curious what he/she was thinking along those lines. it was a genuine question.

Re: Bringing Peer-to-Peer Streaming to the World.

#50

Post by panabee »

_zen wrote: post #22
panabee wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how would you monetize?

Well, if you had a website that cataloged and displayed the streams, much like Twitch.tv, then people can still find streams and subscribe to them in much the same way they do over at Twitch, while the site gets a cut. Additionally, broadcasters can still do Paypal donation links, like they do over at Twitch. Advertisements playing before videos, I'm not sure how it could be done, but it probably could be an overlay…

cool, thanks. just curious what your thoughts were along monetization.
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