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In Defense of the 60+ Hour Work Week

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Re: In Defense of the 60+ Hour Work Week

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please cite the 100+ years of research. I've looked into it, and found very little. All I've found is a few results like the average construction worker can only productively work 60 hour weeks for about 6 weeks in a row before fatigue sets in. For example: http://www.danzpage.com/Construction-Management-Resources/Ca... (Hourly productivity is lower during the 60 hour weeks, but weekly product is higher.) I have neve…

You keep popping up on these threads making wild claims like this. You're like an evolution denier, you keep pushing this weird agenda, but I just don't understand why. People keep giving you the research and yet somehow you don't read it and then claim there is none. It is simple to find research about manual work showing 40 hours per week is optimal. It is simple to find research showing that for knowledge workers…

I've read the research. It doesn't back up the claims made by the OP.

Last time you you were trying to claim 40-60 hours was an 'optimal' working time for manual labour and linked research yourself which showed that it wasn't.

The research linked to shows that weekly product (which is not the same as hourly productivity) can be maximized by anything from 40-60 hours, depending on the nature of the work and the duration of the project.

For example, look at Figure 16 which has numbers:

    100% productivity x 40 hours = 40
    90% productivity x 50 hours = 45
    83% productivity x 60 hours = 49.8
    69% productivity x 70 hours = 48.3
Output is maximized by 60 hour weeks.

Figure 6 shows similar results, based on eyeballing the 5 and 6 day weeks (10 hours/day each) as being about 83% productivity. (Data is in a bar chart, numbers not listed.)

http://www.danzpage.com/Construction-Management-Resources/Ca...

In any case, any paper discussing averages (i.e., every source I've ever found) simply does not address the question of whether the author of the piece can productively work 60 hour weeks. That's like saying "the mean American wage is $50k/year or so, therefore it's impossible for a software engineer to earn $100k".

Re: In Defense of the 60+ Hour Work Week

#42
"All else being equal, why would I hire someone that works 40 hour weeks when there are a ton of other people willing to work 60?"

A good one is that this person has no clue of business, resources and the general nature of deals. They just signed a contract for 40 hours and are willing to throw 20 hours on top, cutting down their effective wage. Unless you make a 60 hour contract with them.

I cannot, with good conscience, have this person make guesses on costs of parts of a project, assert the cost letting work done outside of the company or generally allow them to make any decisions on efforts. I cannot have them work in a group of people that has to plan with time constraints.

I am okay with freelancers working 60 hours and billing them, if they really want to optimize for money. I am not okay with people singing on for bad deals, skewing the market for everyone with a tiny bit of business sense.

Re: In Defense of the 60+ Hour Work Week

#43
We need a good "in defence of the partial work week".

In the UK, there is an ongoing political issue about declaring people with disabilities or chronic illnesses "fit to work". Everyone from cancer and dialysis patients to those with chronic fatigue, pain, depression or back injuries. An essentially binary prospect is presented: you have to take a job you are deemed fit to do, or the money you were relying on to eat is cut off.

The thing is, quite a lot of these people can do some things for some period of time. But if you force them to 40 hours it will run down their health and achieve zero productivity. With reasonable accomodation they could be part time workers. But nobody is interested in making this happen. The person who figures out the "hack" of making one 40 hour week out of four people's 10 hour weeks will be doing the world a great service.

Less extremely, this applies to parents of small children and the elderly; scope for doing more than zero hours, but not the full 40.

Re: In Defense of the 60+ Hour Work Week

#44

The problem isn't the 60 hour weeks, it's the expectations they create. A 60 hour week is easy when you're happy, but having to do a 60 hour week when you're not because that's all you've done for the last year is a serious drag.

Another problem is the expectations it puts on others in a team. Is it ok if there are people working 40+ hours and people working constantly 60+ hours in the same team? I guess this can lead to serious tensions.

Re: In Defense of the 60+ Hour Work Week

#45
I'm always surprised at the passion this subject always generates, particularly in how many people express an opinion on how many hours a week I should work.

I can understand being upset by having to work >40hr/wk when you don't want to, or those 70hr/wk coworkers being declared best. employees. ever., but the reaction when someone expresses an opinion on their personal experience is just ridiculous. It's either the patronizing "when you're my age, sonny, you'll understand" or the similarly unhelpful "you're doing it wrong", with no admission that someone's experience might be different.

Re: In Defense of the 60+ Hour Work Week

#47
Not only do I completely agree with this article, but I see it every day. Everything you want has a cost and a sacrifice. I look at the executive team at my firm and they have be working 60+ hrs a week for over 15 years. And you know what? They are VPs. Win. Sure it probably cost them a lot of social and family time, but they accomplished their goals. If your goal is to have a wife, kids, and a white picket fence, with a low stress job, then go for it. No one is telling you not to. But if you want to be a senior vice president, or a founder of a company - news flash you should probably work more than 40 hours a week. Do you think every executive is smarter than the people he was promoted over? No, of course not. So most likely they worked harder and longer to get there.

Re: In Defense of the 60+ Hour Work Week

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep popping up on these threads making wild claims like this. You're like an evolution denier, you keep pushing this weird agenda, but I just don't understand why. People keep giving you the research and yet somehow you don't read it and then claim there is none. It is simple to find research about manual work showing 40 hours per week is optimal. It is simple to find research showing that for knowledge workers…

I've read the research. It doesn't back up the claims made by the OP. Last time you you were trying to claim 40-60 hours was an 'optimal' working time for manual labour and linked research yourself which showed that it wasn't. The research linked to shows that weekly product (which is not the same as hourly productivity) can be maximized by anything from 40-60 hours, depending on the nature of the work and the durati…

What about figure 9 that shows sustained 60+ hour work weeks drop productivity to 45% that of a 40 hour work week after week 4?

Additionally, you are never going to find research that discussed the magical unicorns you describe and not averages. That's not how research works.

Re: In Defense of the 60+ Hour Work Week

#49
I've found that working long hours is practical with regimented conditioning, much like training for any strenuous activity. If you jump headlong into a 60-hour work week, you'll suffer and burn out rather quickly. A slow ramp eases you into the commitment and tests your limits, gradually pushing them upward. It's also crucial to take down weeks every so often.

Re: In Defense of the 60+ Hour Work Week

#50

So at 23 this person feels he has enough anecdotal experience to trump 100+ years of research. Let's see...he states he has no life outside of work, that he forced himself to pull those hours even when there wasn't work enough to demand it, that he was working those hours without remuneration of any kind, and while conflating 'working' with 'learning', leading me to question if he was really being productive, rather…

Please cite the 100+ years of research. I've looked into it, and found very little. All I've found is a few results like the average construction worker can only productively work 60 hour weeks for about 6 weeks in a row before fatigue sets in. For example: http://www.danzpage.com/Construction-Management-Resources/Ca... (Hourly productivity is lower during the 60 hour weeks, but weekly product is higher.) I have neve…

After 5 minutes of Googling.

http://legacy.igda.org/why-crunch-modes-doesnt-work-six-less...

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Munster/Industrial/chap17.htm

http://www.hcgexperts.com/scheduled-overtime-effect-on-const...

http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/v2appg.htm

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2005/mar05/03-15th...

http://econospeak.blogspot.com/2009/07/hours-of-labour-2.htm... (a translation of Sidney Chapman's work)

Etc.

From the first article you mention, "Subject to the qualifications already expressed, there is a certain consistency in that there is a definite, but not necessarily linear, decrease in productivity for each additional 10 hours per week."

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