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The Man Who Built Catan

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Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#41

Post by philwelch »

YokoZar wrote: post #31
habosa wrote: post #10

My friends and I just got into Catan and it's really great. We used to play a ton of FIFA and Madden when we were together, now it's always "who wants to settle?". It really is a great game because it can't be completely beaten like Monopoly can and there is no best strategy that we've found. I play totally differently than my friends and we all win sometimes. I also love the social aspects of trading and the robber.…

Catan got really popular when I was in college, and I noticed a distinctly different playstyle among the "normal" groups of friends I had and the ones that came from the Economics department. A lot of people never think to do things like: - Pay the robber to rob someone else - Ask the robber what card he wants to take from you, and if it's something you're willing to give up just show him which card it is in your han…

Yeah my coworkers and I used to spend a lot of time negotiating derivatives and the like.

> Trade away all of a scarce resource you have, then use the monopoly card to get them back, then trade them away again

Yeah that's one of the moves where I just refuse to trade and say "I don't negotiate with terrorists."

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#42

Post by lostlogin »

Casseres wrote: post #7
chimeracoder wrote: post #3

Catan was my first German-style board game[0]. I've since "graduated" on to more complicated games, so I rarely play it anymore, but I find that it's an effective "gateway" German-style board game. Almost all of my friends who have played it love it, and have gone on to try (and enjoy) other German-style games. Catan is nice because it's sufficiently more complex (and well-designed) than Monopoly so as to be interest…

If you liked Puerto Rico, I recommend Dominion [0]. [0] http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/36218/dominion

I'll add a recommendation for Power Grid. Its interesting turn order and great build up to the end game is in contrast to the sudden halt that Puerto Rico seems to lurch into when it ends. http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2651/power-grid

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#43

Post by lostlogin »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #2

I've got a little story as to how addictive Catan can be to some people... About 15 years ago, a friend came to visit in my country with Catan. The simple, original box. He stayed at my place and for days my friend, my roommate and his girlfriend and me kept playing it. Then my friend left back to its country and took his Catan with him. We were so addicted and wanted to play really badly, but it was saturday evening…

Agreed, not quite to that level though. The best thing is, compared to computer gaming, it is very social playing and you can have a conversation while playing (usually punctuated by screams hurry up, not screw up and random insults). Board gaming in an evening is excellent.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#44

Post by nogridbag »

Pxtl wrote: post #14
graylights wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that Catan is much less complex monopoly. Just that most people learn monopoly at a very young age so they never notice the complexity. Monopoly's rules are 6 pages of pure text. Catan's rules are 4 pages with some illustration. I don't understand at all why monopoly is the universal board game that every kid learns. It's a horrible game that drags on for hours. Even though I don't particular care for Catan…

I'll disagree with the Catan-is-less-complicated. For one thing, Monopoly builds on the familiar roll-and-move mechanic. For another, Catan's setup process is hellishly complex. Maybe if you bought the Family Edition (where you can't customize the board), then Catan is simpler, but otherwise? Catan's manual is short because it's excessively terse. I've never seen anybody successfully learn Catan from the instruction…

Oh wow. Apparently, I've been playing Catan incorrectly the whole time. I never knew an opposing player's settlement can obstruct my own path (and split a path into two).

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#45

Post by YokoZar »

nopassrecover wrote: post #35
YokoZar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Catan got really popular when I was in college, and I noticed a distinctly different playstyle among the "normal" groups of friends I had and the ones that came from the Economics department. A lot of people never think to do things like: - Pay the robber to rob someone else - Ask the robber what card he wants to take from you, and if it's something you're willing to give up just show him which card it is in your han…

Interestingly the "clear within a turn" rule would mean that you could only rent a port from the player who's turn it is (unless you allow all players to use their ports at any time). I also assume by paying you mean making an undesirable trade, unless you allow gifting through another house rule. In some games I've seen the following: Player A (current turn) wants to trade wheat for a brick through Player B's port.…

Right, it basically becomes a form of "I'll give you 2 wheat and one other card if you immediately port the 2 wheat for the one thing I want and give it back".

It's not strictly a discrete trade, as there are two steps for the player to take, but it does resolve within a turn (provided the active player has the port).

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#46

Post by pliny »

tfgg wrote: post #5
chimeracoder wrote: post #3

Catan was my first German-style board game[0]. I've since "graduated" on to more complicated games, so I rarely play it anymore, but I find that it's an effective "gateway" German-style board game. Almost all of my friends who have played it love it, and have gone on to try (and enjoy) other German-style games. Catan is nice because it's sufficiently more complex (and well-designed) than Monopoly so as to be interest…

In Oxford there's http://www.thirstymeeples.co.uk/ . It's really good for finding new games, as they've got roaming board game specialists that will recommend a new game, help you get set up and teach you the basics. I just wish they'd get an alcohol license ;) (if only to help their profitability!) After playing a fair bit of Catan, I tend to get frustrated with how it's just a bit too random to establish complex st…

How do they keep the food off the games? Is everything covered in plastic?

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#47

Post by jonnathanson »

mdmarra wrote: post #28
idProQuo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who was bad at monopoly as a kid, those cash injections helped make the game feel more "fair". The vanilla rules make it really hard for a newbie to win against someone who actually knows how to play strategically. Now, that doesn't justify turning the game into a 4 hour slog, but it may help to explain why so many people use these "wimp rules".

There are definite "winning" strategies - like acquiring a monopoly on "jail row" and mortgaging all other properties to build it up as soon as possible. But does altering a game so that a child doesn't have to see the optimal moves from someone else do anything positive for anyone playing the game?

I'm going to guess, based on a lot of observation, that most casual Monopoly players of any age don't play strategically. They rely on the dice, negotiate badly (if at all!), buy everything they land on without any master plan in mind, and ignore cash flow until it becomes an issue. These are the opponents most kids will play against in ad hoc games of Monopoly, and in these games, kids will have a grand old time. When the outcome of each dice roll is the most decisive factor in a particular session, a child is at less of a disadvantage.

Also, fwiw, 99% of casual players I've seen overvalue the marquee properties like Boardwalk, etc., and undervalue the oranges, light blues, and reds.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#48

Post by ryanfreeborn »

twoodfin wrote: post #33
mdmarra wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monopoly only drags on for hours if you play by silly house rules like $400 for landing on Go, money for landing on Free Parking, or not requiring an auction when passing on purchasing a property. All of these common house rules artificially extend the game by either injecting cash into the game or slowing the acquisition of property. A vanilla game of 4 player monopoly should take no more than an hour.

In my experience Monopoly games played by the official rules with experienced players would drag endlessly due to trade negotiations. Typically, whenever a player was clearly in an advantageous position, the remaining players would form a loose alliance, shuffling properties and cash in an attempt to stymie the leader. The leader would fall back into the pack, a new leader would emerge, and the whole process would re…

Back when my friends and I played Catan a lot, we developed a simple way to avoid the spoiler effect: running point totals. Games are still played in regular fashion, but your victory points for each session are added up over time. Winning a game gave you an extra VP in the running totals. You can set the constraints to whatever you want: a year's time, 6 months, 10 games, whatever it may be...at the end of the time frame, whoever has the most victory points wins. Put some money down at the beginning, and you've got great sustained competition.

Obviously it only works if you play with the same people regularly, but in my experience that's actually the norm.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#49

Post by wwweston »

Casseres wrote: post #7
chimeracoder wrote: post #3

Catan was my first German-style board game[0]. I've since "graduated" on to more complicated games, so I rarely play it anymore, but I find that it's an effective "gateway" German-style board game. Almost all of my friends who have played it love it, and have gone on to try (and enjoy) other German-style games. Catan is nice because it's sufficiently more complex (and well-designed) than Monopoly so as to be interest…

If you liked Puerto Rico, I recommend Dominion [0]. [0] http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/36218/dominion

I like Dominion, it's got some of the same mechanics and is a an easier game to set up and explain.

But it's missing one key thing that Puerto Rico has -- the depth of subtle interaction. Yes, there's some interaction cards in Dominion, but with PR there's this level of play that goes beyond blocking other players and into providing incentives for them to do things with a timing that's advantageous for you (and slightly less advantageous for them, but not so much that they can resist :).

Not a whole lot of games like that.

Re: The Man Who Built Catan

#50

Post by javert »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #36
derefr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand at all why monopoly is the universal board game that every kid learns. It's a horrible game that drags on for hours. Well, inasmuch as it does that, it's teaching the correct economic lesson: when you allow for monopolies, the rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and social mobility (what a game designer would term "avoiding lame-duck scenarios") is nowhere to be found. I'd say Monopoly is actua…

That might be valid if most modern monopolies weren't the product of government intervention.

Not most, ALL. Even "natural monopolies" like power delivery are not natural, and only actually come about through government intervention.
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