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1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

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Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#41

Post by pyrrhotech »

jsdalton wrote: post #28

While true, the actual data presents a different picture: http://i.imgur.com/FXMlOZB.png [source: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/content/chapter-7/c07.... ] So actually, the U.S. had the second highest score on that question, behind South Korea. Furthermore, the U.S. consistently performed on par or higher vs. the other countries/regions for the remaining questions. The real outlier for the U.S. on this survey…

That's obviously because a lot of people have religious beliefs that make more sense to them than evolution. It's not that they haven't heard of evolution, but that they reject it for the simpler theory found in their 3000 year old book.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#42

Post by kelseyfrancis »

jsdalton wrote: post #28

While true, the actual data presents a different picture: http://i.imgur.com/FXMlOZB.png [source: http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/content/chapter-7/c07.... ] So actually, the U.S. had the second highest score on that question, behind South Korea. Furthermore, the U.S. consistently performed on par or higher vs. the other countries/regions for the remaining questions. The real outlier for the U.S. on this survey…

> The real outlier for the U.S. on this survey was the question about evolution...

Which, the way the question was worded, could reasonably be attributed to people just affirming their belief in creation irrespective of their actual ignorance of the accepted scientific explanation for the origin of humans.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#43

Post by eksith »

antocv wrote: post #27
eksith wrote: post #7

Depressing, but not unexpected. The problem isn't necessarily anti-science; it's anti-authority. Anti telling me what I can or can't believe. Anti you think your "science" can tell me what I know in my heart/what I feel in my bones? The last thing we should do is try to mash heads with this level of warm comfort and confidence in ignorance and instead ask questions to probe the depths of what they do know and why. Wh…

You're on to something. I once met a person who was anti-anything which isnt coming from her own mind. Science? Nah, she got "power of her mind" to bend and twist metals(move objects around - only if she could just focus and use more than 10% of her brain. We got into a heated discussion about knowledge, science and philosophy, it all boiled down to "I believe whatever I want and thats the only thing that matters, no…

I think there was more to it than "I believe whatever I want". That's just her pride talking.

Heated arguments aren't very helpful IMO. I have a good friend who still believes the Earth is 5000 years old, but the last thing I want to do is bash his head into science.

That takes a long conversation over coffee (hopefully several cups) and ensuring that I don't make him feel like I'm looking down on him for what he believes. That's the worst way to convince anyone of anything, reality or not.

People have a tough time separating belief from idea. Beliefs need no evidence, but ideas are testable. Find out what her ideas are and we can move on to her beliefs later (or maybe you won't even need to go that far when she realizes the fallibility of unyielding belief).

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#44

Post by BlackDeath3 »

aortega wrote: post #30
jballanc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed. Law: A descriptive generalization about how some aspect of the natural world behaves under stated circumstances. Hypothesis: A testable statement about the natural world that can be used to build more complex inferences and explanations. Theory: In science, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate fac…

>Theory: In science, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses. ...that can be wrong and often are replaced by better theories as more tests and better explanations came out. Science is based in doubt. If you are too sure of a scientific theory, you are missing what science really is about and what you need is religion.

The reason that theories are not referred to as "guesses" is because there is, in theory (pun intended), an enormous chasm of evidence between a theory, and a guess/hypothesis.

Nothing is known with absolute certainty. What is the point is referring to everything as a "guess" simply because it isn't known for certain? Context is important here.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#45

Post by saraid216 »

aortega wrote: post #30
jballanc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed. Law: A descriptive generalization about how some aspect of the natural world behaves under stated circumstances. Hypothesis: A testable statement about the natural world that can be used to build more complex inferences and explanations. Theory: In science, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate fac…

>Theory: In science, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses. ...that can be wrong and often are replaced by better theories as more tests and better explanations came out. Science is based in doubt. If you are too sure of a scientific theory, you are missing what science really is about and what you need is religion.

Fallibility doesn't make it a "guess".

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#46

Post by PhasmaFelis »

mercurial wrote: post #10

I simply refuse to believe that. The notion that a quarter of the people supposed to vote in the ruler of the most powerful nation can't wrap their head around the most basic of scientific facts is too depressing to contemplate.

Note that the USA scored better than most of the rest of the world in this and several other basic science questions. The actual result is "humans aren't well-educated"; it's being cynically spun as "Americans are stupid."

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#47

Post by rayiner »

The question as it's worded is: "does the earth go around the sun or does the sun go around the earth?" There's all sorts of reasons someone might get that question wrong. The way it's framed makes you visualize two systems and pick the right one, and people might have a problem with that. The phrasing depends on word order being significant in English in ways that might be confusing to foreign language speakers (of which the U.S. has many). Heck, just parsing it took me enough time that someone rushing through the survey might just not think about it too carefully before answering.

I bet if you showed two pictures, with a large sun orbiting the earth and one with a small earth orbiting a large sun, you'd get a much higher percentage right.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#48

Post by baddox »

I'm not sure how you would setup the study, but has there ever been a study to see what percentage of people will respond to a survey like this incorrectly even if they know the correct answer, either due to a mistake, or general disinterest, or confusion over the question? Especially for the last possibility, I think reading comprehension could be a big culprit here.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#49

Post by dubfan »

kderbe wrote: post #12
dubfan wrote: post #2

The full paper is here (link in the story is broken): http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/content/chapter-7/c07.... To me the worst part is on page 25. Only about 30% of Americans understand scientific inquiry. I believe this is the root of the anti-science undercurrent in mainstream American society.

The table on page 23 shows the US tying or beating all other sampled countries for % correct in most of the basic science pop-quiz questions. How does this mesh with the widely-repeated statistics of US math and science education ranking 10th, 20th, or lower in the world? Is it because the answers come from the general population rather than students?

> Is it because the answers come from the general population rather than students?

I believe that is the case. Those studies you mention generally use results of standardized tests taken by students. For what it's worth I'm not convinced the methodologies used by those studies are very good.

Re: 1 in 4 Americans Don't Know Earth Orbits the Sun. Yes, Really.

#50

Post by Iftheshoefits »

aortega wrote: post #20
Iftheshoefits wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are not even remotely close to being correct.

Why? would you say, quantum mechanics theory is a universal truth, a fact, or just a very good guess? Because general relativity is also a theory, but both theories cannot be true in our universe as they contradict. It's the same with almost any natural science theory. Theories try to be very good aproximations of the truth, until a better guess comes out.

What you mean by "guess" isn't how any scientist would interpret "guess" in this context, and that what you call a "guess" is a rather glib and incomplete representation of all the things that comprise a "theory."
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