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The Growth of College Grads in Dead-End Jobs

theatlantic.com

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Re: The Growth of College Grads in Dead-End Jobs

#41

Post by matwood »

Domenic_S wrote: post #32
polymatter wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A history graduate learns how to analyze disparate sources of variable quality for a specific purpose and argue a conclusion. They should be masters of long form report, able to select relevant information from a huge library and be able to defend a position cogently. I think its some of the most transferable skills there is. I'm not sure my comp sci degree was particularly useful. The vast majority of what I learnt…

> A history graduate learns how to analyze disparate sources of variable quality for a specific purpose and argue a conclusion. If you think that's how history is written, I have some bad news....

It is not how history is written, but how history is interpreted. Research and forming opinions is exactly what a history graduate should have learned while in school. This is why many lawyers study history in undergrad.

Re: The Growth of College Grads in Dead-End Jobs

#42

Post by [deleted] »

ye wrote: post #8
thatthatis wrote: post #5

Perhaps the problem is that people who are destined for a dead-end job are now going to college: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Educational_Attainment_in_... In 1990 ~20% of the US had bachelors degrees. In 2009 ~25% did. In the same period, the % of college grads in low wage jobs also went up by about 5% (according to the OP). Caveats: 1) That second 5% is from the population of grads not the total population, so…

The real problem is people studying bullshit that nobody really needs. Young people got sold the idea that they can be anything they want to be, they they are all special snowflakes. The reality is quite a bit more brutal. What we really need is mandatory career counseling, once a year, for every student. The counselors must be familiar with the state of the market, the market trends, technology trends, number of fut…

[deleted]

Re: The Growth of College Grads in Dead-End Jobs

#44

Post by mgkimsal »

electronvolt wrote: post #34
mgkimsal wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A history graduate is competent in what exactly?" Studying/researching problems. Writing persuasive documents based on evidence. Working collaboratively in teams doing research. Or, at least, that's what I'd expect. I'd expect that almost anyone graduating with a 4 year degree in anything . Sadly, I know it's not the case. > 20 years ago, I was taking a college course on 'intro to china'. It was definitely a 'blow o…

This unfortunately happens fairly routinely even at high level universities. Not always as publicly, though, but it does happen. I'm a faculty brat (professorial parents) at one of the top public universities in the nation. There are always students that will complain to professors that things are too hard, or that grading schemes are unfair, or etc. with very little cause. Possibly worse is that sometimes people's /…

Cool insights. I don't think the 'helicopter parent' syndrome was alive and well in the late 80s, but it seems to be a 'thing' now. :/

In this particular case, the instructor was doing this out of a passion for sinology - she was a librarian who did this part-time. Perhaps full-time teaching would have helped her develop a thicker skin over the years. That said, she was already in her late 50s or early 60s at this point - not sure she'd encountered too many outright hostile students up to that point.

Re: The Growth of College Grads in Dead-End Jobs

#45

Post by pnathan »

I can not count the number of college students I met while I was in college (2001-20010ish) who did not have a clear vision of how they would pay off debt and maintain a living after graduation. Following your dream, being passionate, etc were the proverbs being lived by.

Not a realistic analysis of how they would survive in non-minimum wage jobs.

It should not surprise anyone that following your dream without counting the cost results in very high costs for most people - the penniless genius and starving artist is still a proverb.

Re: The Growth of College Grads in Dead-End Jobs

#46

Post by ye »

hmsimha wrote: post #31
ye wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the jobs I listed, apart from nursing, are well paid. Nursing is more for people who like to help/save other people, and it's a noble profession in my mind.

IIRC farming is notoriously underpaid, but I believe you are right about the rest.

Well, there is "working on a farm", which is not paid well.

And then there's growing things and selling them, which is usually very profitable, and lands you all kinds of government subsidies, depending on where you are and what you're growing.

Re: The Growth of College Grads in Dead-End Jobs

#47

Post by gms7777 »

electronvolt wrote: post #34
mgkimsal wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A history graduate is competent in what exactly?" Studying/researching problems. Writing persuasive documents based on evidence. Working collaboratively in teams doing research. Or, at least, that's what I'd expect. I'd expect that almost anyone graduating with a 4 year degree in anything . Sadly, I know it's not the case. > 20 years ago, I was taking a college course on 'intro to china'. It was definitely a 'blow o…

This unfortunately happens fairly routinely even at high level universities. Not always as publicly, though, but it does happen. I'm a faculty brat (professorial parents) at one of the top public universities in the nation. There are always students that will complain to professors that things are too hard, or that grading schemes are unfair, or etc. with very little cause. Possibly worse is that sometimes people's /…

Back in my undergrad I TA'd Comp Sci for a few years. That sort of stuff was rarer in upper level courses, but in the intro classes which were often largely filled with non-cs majors, it was rampant. The policies of the course were extremely lenient as well, and very explicitly spelled out in the syllabus.

For example, there was an assignment every single week, and 3 times during the semester, they were allowed to turn in an assignment up to a week late. This is by far the most lenient late policy I've ever seen in a course. And still, every semester, I had to deal with several kids angrily yelling at me because they found out they got a 0 on an assignment because for the 4th time they decided to turn in something late.

Re: The Growth of College Grads in Dead-End Jobs

#48

Post by 6d0debc071 »

john_b wrote: post #21
Jormundir wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the problem across the aisle of employers looking for bullshit skills and experience that are almost completely irrelevant to the jobs they're offering. Graduating from college today and trying to move into the workforce feels like a lockout, like there's some sort of employer union to purposefully bar recent grads out of employment. It really has nothing to do with studying "bullshit degrees", as so man…

> "Really the problem is that there just aren't enough jobs for college grads, and the jobs that are available, employers naively put bars of experience, completely ignoring a mass of very competent workers." If your premise is true and any employer with competitors did this systematically they would be subjecting themselves to a significant competitive disadvantage. You're postulating that employers in general volun…

There are companies that do a wide variety of nonsensical things and survive because of other qualities. How many of us long for sane managers that understand estimates, fighting the employee's corner - even if just so that they're a sustainable resources - and the basics of meaningful targets?

One aspect of competition is selection pressure, but the other is diversity. You're assured of reaching an asymptote with your threat environment in order to survive for any significant length of time, but it's perfectly possible for a majority of the market to do very stupid things if they all think much alike.

Heck, if the market were that adaptive, insane companies would be getting squished left and right.

Re: The Growth of College Grads in Dead-End Jobs

#49

Post by ye »

ijk wrote: post #33
btian wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should learn skills that are desirable in the current economy. Not just programming, but also nursing, chemical engineering etc.

According to the BLS, the outlook for chemical engineers is only 4%, way below the average [1]. Other STEM fields, such as electrical engineering, are also in decline [2]. Software developers only increased by 19,000 jobs total. Students are graduating with the skills you list as desirable, but those skills aren't actually in demand. [1] http://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/chemical... [2] http://www.c…

Under your own link "Software developers, systems software" has THE best combination of the salary, projected number of jobs, and projected growth rate.

Software developers are indeed in demand.

Re: The Growth of College Grads in Dead-End Jobs

#50

Post by bcbrown »

Pxtl wrote: post #25
ye wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case the victim is often responsible for making poor career choices. The whole "I graduated, I'm entitled to a job" sentiment must go away, or we will end up with an army of hungry homeless history, women-study, art, philosophy graduates.

But it used to work that way. A generation or two ago you had a bunch of guys with degrees in literature and art-history managing plants full guys with highschool diplomas. And they all were middle-class or higher.

The difference is now most job-seekers have a college degree, so just the mere fact of having a degree is no longer a differentiator.
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