41–50 of 178 posts
I know this is completely off-topic, and I know this is a war I will lose, but must we call ourselves "bullish"/"bearish"? Anyway, Bitcoin may not save the world, but if it does anything like what this blog post says, it may very well save the Internet from the advertising platform it's become.
this is the internet. make it happen.
For all the people out there who are thinking about bitcoin as a payment technology: If you assume that customers get paid in dollars and that vendors will have to use dollars to pay their taxes, pay their employees and buy the raw materials for their products (reasonable assumptions, I think), then a payment consists of one conversion from dollars to bitcoins by the purchaser, and one conversion from bitcoins to dol…
Here's one model that could work. Think of Bitcoin as analogous to physical cash. Cash = small casual payments in offline world. Bitcoin = small casual payments in online world. (btw, the original Bitoin paper says this pretty explicitly). I don't keep my savings in (physical) cash. I keep some spending money there. Similarly you will have your internet spending money. You'll converts to and from USD occasionally but…
1) You say "You'll converts to and from USD occasionally but not on every transaction" . Sure you wouldn't need to exchange on every transaction, but when you do the conversion, the 1% applies to $ amount not the number of transactions. So if I convert $200 into BTC, I pay the 1% (+ exchange spread) on $200. It doesn't really matter if I do this over 1 transaction or many small ones. Am I missing something here? Are BTC transactions really cheaper?
2) Whats the actual advantage for the average consumer to pay with BTC? Do you see merchants offering discounts if you pay them with BTC? If not, whats the mechanism that compels me, the average consumer, to pay with BTC over say Visa?
So let's not come at it from "credit cards and payments are a bloated gouging industry" I'm not buying that and it also is too merchant focused (vs consumers who really decide what a merchant will do in terms of payments) Now, there are some really interesting fringe cases that Chris touches upon that can open the door for Bitcoin. Micropayments are broken when it comes to credit cards. It's not the %, it that's "+ 30 cents" that is brutal. So Bitcoin could play a roll there. There are disbursements and marketplaces. I suspect TaskRabbit would probably like to have the ability to move money from buyers on their platforms to the TaskRabbiter's with a reduced payment friction than today. There might be 5% margin businesses (Chris' example sounds like the founder of Dwolla) that really are motivated to drive you to Bitcoin.
So what happens over time is Bitcoin focuses in on those areas where it has a strategic advantage over cards and ignores those where it doesn't. It uses that experience to become a legitimate, scaled set of payments rails. Solutions are implemented so that consumers are comfortable with using and paying with Bitcoin. Then at that 5 - 15 year mark it's ready to take on mainstream payments. Assuming issues like fraud and settlement and wild fluctuations are worked out.
EDIT: I am definitely thinking out loud and on the fly so am ok with some serious rebuttals.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's one model that could work. Think of Bitcoin as analogous to physical cash. Cash = small casual payments in offline world. Bitcoin = small casual payments in online world. (btw, the original Bitoin paper says this pretty explicitly). I don't keep my savings in (physical) cash. I keep some spending money there. Similarly you will have your internet spending money. You'll converts to and from USD occasionally but…
Chris - this argument seems compelling, at least on the surface. It brought up two questions in my mind: 1) You say "You'll converts to and from USD occasionally but not on every transaction" . Sure you wouldn't need to exchange on every transaction, but when you do the conversion, the 1% applies to $ amount not the number of transactions. So if I convert $200 into BTC, I pay the 1% (+ exchange spread) on $200. It do…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's one model that could work. Think of Bitcoin as analogous to physical cash. Cash = small casual payments in offline world. Bitcoin = small casual payments in online world. (btw, the original Bitoin paper says this pretty explicitly). I don't keep my savings in (physical) cash. I keep some spending money there. Similarly you will have your internet spending money. You'll converts to and from USD occasionally but…
Chris - this argument seems compelling, at least on the surface. It brought up two questions in my mind: 1) You say "You'll converts to and from USD occasionally but not on every transaction" . Sure you wouldn't need to exchange on every transaction, but when you do the conversion, the 1% applies to $ amount not the number of transactions. So if I convert $200 into BTC, I pay the 1% (+ exchange spread) on $200. It do…
It's also worth noting that many of the exchanges have fees that get lower if you trade larger amounts in a given time frame. If you're a high volume trader, the difference can be significant.
The reason why people should get excited about Bitcoin is not a bubble or money, but rather a something completely new. Large group of people put financial rules into software and agreed that they are going to use these rules without external central entity and enforcement. If this continue to roll, same might be applied to many other areas I believe. It is just my random fantasy at this moment, but why we will need…
But now you're putting a libertarian political agenda into Bitcoin again, and this is what makes many people (including me) very nervous. You see, many people think about the terrible pain and suffering the US experienced about a century ago when the economy and law were largely unregulated and unenforced. Much of the country became quickly enslaved to a small group of individuals; terrible exploitation and rampant p…
He's just saying that regulations can be implemented and enforced by the network itself.
Different thing altogether.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not entirely sure what point you're making?
You seemed to be implying that most peoples' interest in BTC is related more to its inflating exchange than anything else. I was remarking that I like to see willful ignorance, people who care not about actually understanding BTC, be punished for it. At any rate, there need not be any point to what I'm saying. Sometimes, a comment is just a comment.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Payment fees typically go to Visa or MasterCard, I thought. And considering the financials of those companies, operating the existing payment networks must be costly- both companies are growing & profitable, but not nearly as much as you might expect if the payment networks were zero-cost to operate.
Ya, agreed. I think this statement sticks out the most: Of all of those choices, handing 2.5% to banks to move bits around the Internet is the worst possible choice. Regardless of whether its a bank or a credit card processing company, why is it the "worst possible choice" to give it to them? Who are we to judge who gets $1 when we are the ones who chose to spend the $1 in the first place?
For all the people out there who are thinking about bitcoin as a payment technology: If you assume that customers get paid in dollars and that vendors will have to use dollars to pay their taxes, pay their employees and buy the raw materials for their products (reasonable assumptions, I think), then a payment consists of one conversion from dollars to bitcoins by the purchaser, and one conversion from bitcoins to dol…
Here's one model that could work. Think of Bitcoin as analogous to physical cash. Cash = small casual payments in offline world. Bitcoin = small casual payments in online world. (btw, the original Bitoin paper says this pretty explicitly). I don't keep my savings in (physical) cash. I keep some spending money there. Similarly you will have your internet spending money. You'll converts to and from USD occasionally but…
I don't keep my savings in cash, but I can withdraw as much cash as I could reasonably want at zero cost from my bank. How can I do this (i.e., USD->spending money conversion for free) with Bitcoin?
Also, are you making an assumption that the volatility of BitcoinUSD will go away at some point in the future? If that happens, keeping Bitcoin around instead of USD will become reasonable.
> But ultimately smarter people than me will figure out the right model. That's the beauty of software platforms.
Sounds like wishy-washy thinking which I hear a lot of from bitcoin advocates.
me and my alt currency enthusiasts think of bitcoin as simply virtual gold. done.