What I Didn't Say • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Didn't Say

#41

Post by kordless » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 9:12 PM UTC

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #12

tptacek wrote: post #2

I apologize. I took it on faith that when The Information said they were running a "complete interview" with you, that it was in fact both complete and an actual interview. It seems very clear how this piece misrepresented you; the entire elided question you cite is particularly damning. I retain some of my misgivings (which have much more to do with the industry than with YC), but the "interview" clearly wasn't a go…

It's a little scary how powerful newspapers are at shaping public opinion. At least their reputation will be irreversibly damaged by breaking people's trust.

I don't think it's so much about shaping public opinion as it is playing up people's fears. The threat of discrimination is still present in our society and is a very important topic across multiple demographics. You can't blame someone for feeling strongly about something they fear. However, journalists who write in a blaming tone to play to these fears should be blamed for mislaying trust instead of being lauded for raising awareness.

Nitasha Tiku made several negative blaming statements in her story. The one that stuck out to me as an obvious tell of a blaming statement was "That archetype, of course, is usually attached to a penis." In all fairness, I don't think that anyone wants to be addressed via 'being attached' to their private parts.

Here's a link on NVC if anyone is interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication. It's powerful stuff.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#42

Post by lauradhamilton » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 9:13 PM UTC

ericabiz wrote: post #32

As a female founder, I think this is a well-thought-out, articulate response, and I appreciate pg stepping up to say something about women in tech. In a similar vein, I'd love to see YC take on one or both of the following: 1) Do at least one application cycle completely blind. How could you accomplish this? Much like in the concert auditions where this was first tried, put people behind a curtain--and then use techn…

I agree. Blind applications would be great.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#43

Post by arcticfox » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 9:13 PM UTC

Is there an editor's rebuttal to this? If unintentional, at the very least a limited apology seems fitting.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#44

Post by jsmthrowaway » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 9:13 PM UTC

crassus wrote: post #33

yawn wrote: post #26

Jakob Kaplan Moss owes PG a public apology for his behavior. The witch hunt tweets that were coming out of him without getting the facts straight are downright disheartening.

I'm of mixed opinions about him. On the one hand, he's been influential in making Pycon more friendly to women, which I support[1]. On the other hand, he appears to have swallowed the feminist kool-aid without reflection. He has a knee-jerk reaction whenever an alleged case of "sexism" comes up - he is inclined to take the side of the "oppressed" group and facts be damned. He takes a guilty until proven innocent stan…

You've described a number of the Django old guard. That is definitely not limited to him. Remember the gendered pronoun brouhaha against libuv?

And no, Jacob is already bitching about pg's essay on his Twitter.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#45

Post by nashashmi » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 9:14 PM UTC

Can I use the skewed article and PG's response to now make a case that women can't be newspaper writers?

Re: What I Didn't Say

#46

Post by natural219 » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 9:14 PM UTC

Can anyone link to an objective "what PG actually said" so we can, you know, actually evaluate these claims in context?

I see a link to https://www.theinformation.com/YC-s-Paul-Graham-The-Complete..., but there's no way I'm subscribing to this junk website.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#47

Post by crassus » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 9:17 PM UTC

freyrs3 wrote: post #36

I'm not sure I want to work in an industry where some offhanded quip can lead to the kind witchhunt and character assassination like we saw over the last few days. Paul Graham may have some views that seem controversial to some people, but don't we all? I really blame the tabloidization of the tech press and the "twitter controversy of the day" bandwagon effect for these kind of incidents.

I wish him luck on his follow-up essay about female founders. What's valuable about a PG essay is 1) his careful analysis and 2) generalization from his wealth of experience. But if he does (2) at all, he's going to piss off Social Justice Warriors.

Writing nowadays is like playing football in a minefield.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#48

Post by klaut » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 9:17 PM UTC

freyrs3 wrote: post #36

I'm not sure I want to work in an industry where some offhanded quip can lead to the kind witchhunt and character assassination like we saw over the last few days. Paul Graham may have some views that seem controversial to some people, but don't we all? I really blame the tabloidization of the tech press and the "twitter controversy of the day" bandwagon effect for these kind of incidents.

This. A million times this.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#49

Post by yawn » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 9:17 PM UTC

crassus wrote: post #33

yawn wrote: post #26

Jakob Kaplan Moss owes PG a public apology for his behavior. The witch hunt tweets that were coming out of him without getting the facts straight are downright disheartening.

I'm of mixed opinions about him. On the one hand, he's been influential in making Pycon more friendly to women, which I support[1]. On the other hand, he appears to have swallowed the feminist kool-aid without reflection. He has a knee-jerk reaction whenever an alleged case of "sexism" comes up - he is inclined to take the side of the "oppressed" group and facts be damned. He takes a guilty until proven innocent stan…

That's why the "disheartening". He's obviously very smart and compassionate. I add a Code of Conduct to all my sites now, largely because of his example. The way he flew off the handle so quickly without taking the time to understand first really bothered me.

Re: What I Didn't Say

#50

Post by vezzy-fnord » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 9:18 PM UTC

freyrs3 wrote: post #36

I'm not sure I want to work in an industry where some offhanded quip can lead to the kind witchhunt and character assassination like we saw over the last few days. Paul Graham may have some views that seem controversial to some people, but don't we all? I really blame the tabloidization of the tech press and the "twitter controversy of the day" bandwagon effect for these kind of incidents.

It's not really a problem with the tech industry, so much as it is in general with the mainstream media and consumer society. People have loved sensational stories for centuries.

The only difference is the persistent toxicity of extreme social justice and how they've invaded tech, for some reason. Perhaps because it's a big and booming field, but I've always found it odd how a lot of feminists decry geek culture as outcasts, losers and misogynists, yet simultaneously want desperately to be a part of it.

Ultimately, I think you'll do yourself good with a social media detox.