Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe

#41

Post by simbolit » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 12:12 AM UTC

w0utert wrote: post #33

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #5

It's not exactly clear but I assume this means they'll have to provide some sort of converter to Micro USB or whatever? It's a great idea to have a common connector, but Apple aren't going to use the same as everyone else and everyone else seems to be compatible now anyway. It looks like the end result might just be iOS stuff costs a bit more and governments get some more tax money from a ridiculously marked up conve…

Maybe I'm the one who's missing something here, but why is everyone so obsessed with the Lightning connector Apple uses? As far as I understand it, the proposed legislation is about universal chargers , not universal cables , and isn't intended to promote interoperability between phones from different manufacturers, but to limit the environmental impact of replacing the charger every time you switch phones. Last time…

sorry to disappoint you, but "charger" in this context means power supply PLUS cable.

Re: Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe

#42

Post by Someone » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 12:14 AM UTC

yaakov34 wrote: post #34

danbmil99 wrote: post #22

The question to ask is this: if this law were already in place, would Apple (or any manufacturer) ever innovate something like Lightning or the magnetic mac chargers, given that they then also have to support the common standard, putting them at a significant cost disadvantage? This kind of regulation, while arguably well-meaning, always seems to end up distorting market forces and discouraging innovation.

I tend to agree, given my small-l libertarian tendencies and my preference for letting people do whatever they want unless it hurts others. On the other hand, there are already scads of standards (including ones that essentially say you-must-do-it-exactly-like-this) for consumer products. And it's hard to see why it's a very big imposition to standardize the DC power supplies, if the AC power supplies are standardize…

But the argument for creating this law is that letting people do whatever they want does hurt others, and that limiting it can prevent or soften the tragedy of the commons.

Re: Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe

#43

Post by simbolit » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 12:20 AM UTC

danbmil99 wrote: post #22

The question to ask is this: if this law were already in place, would Apple (or any manufacturer) ever innovate something like Lightning or the magnetic mac chargers, given that they then also have to support the common standard, putting them at a significant cost disadvantage? This kind of regulation, while arguably well-meaning, always seems to end up distorting market forces and discouraging innovation.

i'd argue that there are things that make a lot of sense being standardised. think about power outlets [0] on the wall. if you have ever been to a country using different power outlets, you know what i mean. wouldn't it be awesome if every country were to use IEC 60906, as it was envisioned in 1986 [1]?? I'd argue that power supply and perhaps also wired communication (ethernet cables, anyone) are prime examples where standardisation is very benificial.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60906-1

Re: Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe

#44

Post by klausa » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 12:26 AM UTC

SwellJoe wrote: post #20

coob wrote: post #15

Ugh no thanks. Lightning is orders of magnitude superior to other current solutions (except cost). If it came to the point where this was actually enforced, I bet Apple would just pay the fines it receives and just continues to use Lightning.

USB 3.0 is not an order of magnitude inferior to Lightning. As I understand it, the primary reason Lightning was chosen over micro USB was simply that the iPad needs more power than micro USB is specified to provide. That kind of thing can be resolved in the two years we have before this has to go into effect. I'm always on the side of standard connections. Which is one of several reasons I never choose Apple product…

>USB 3.0 is not an order of magnitude inferior to Lightning.

USB 3.0 micro plug is order of magnitude inferior to Lightning in arguably the most important part - experience of plugging and unplugging, which you'll do at least twice a day.

Until we can survive on wireless power, I'll take reversible Lightning over that ridiculous oversized Micro-B USB 3.0 (even the name is ridiculous) plug any day.

Re: Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe

#45

Post by Someone » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 12:27 AM UTC

sigzero wrote: post #25

salient wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that already existed for years, and Apple is pretty much the only one in Europe who offers an adapter for their charger, while everyone else uses micro-USB. So I may be wrong, but I think this is about actually forcing Apple to provide micro-USB directly.

Apple is not going to do that.

The EU is too large a market for Apple to give up, and the EU will keep products from the market, if needed.

Apple will move, if pressed hard enough. I also think economies of scale will force the world to follow what the EU proscribes, just as the EU's lead free soldering requirements changed soldering (almost) everywhere, and just like California's emission guidelines affect cars (almost) everywhere.

Re: Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe

#46

Post by dippyskoodlez » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 12:30 AM UTC

thirdsight wrote: post #31

coob wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about first party connectors? We have projects in rural primary schools in Malawi and are yet to have single cable failure with our dozens of lightning iPads there.

Yes, the cables shipped with the devices.

I've yet to see a broken lightning connector personally of the 20-30 devices I've seen/used, but I can't say the same of USB. There are sample descrepencies of course, as USB has been around long, but saying the Lightning connector isn't durable is pretty much flat out the opposite opinion of most impressions/experiences, and sounds more like a paid spam-pinion without evidence supporting any specific issues.

Re: Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe

#47

Post by Houshalter » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 12:32 AM UTC

przemelek wrote: post #35

Houshalter wrote: post #32

Standardization seems like a good idea but I'm not sure if I'm ok with the government forcing a single standard. Maybe another idea would be to tax non-compliant chargers, so they could still be legal, but have an incentive to comply to the standard. Or remove patents on chargers so there isn't any incentive to force consumers to buy your brand of charger, you might as well just comply with the standard. Or allow per…

Yeah, so maybe governments should stop setting rules about right- and left-hand traffic? Private sector will be so much better on establishing non government standards... For example Trucks (for British people Lorries) will user right-handed traffic rules, and normal cars will user left-hand traffic rules. Market will decide what is better.... As we can see market standard for charges was "every company has its own s…

This is a ridiculous argument. Traffic rules can lead to death and it's literally not possible for there to be multiple standards. Having a different charger for your device is not dangerous nor impossible.

Additionally, I said in my comment that maybe the government should regulate it, I just proposed alternatives that would allow for some reasonable exceptions.

Re: Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe

#48

Post by nwh » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 12:32 AM UTC

klausa wrote: post #44

SwellJoe wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB 3.0 is not an order of magnitude inferior to Lightning. As I understand it, the primary reason Lightning was chosen over micro USB was simply that the iPad needs more power than micro USB is specified to provide. That kind of thing can be resolved in the two years we have before this has to go into effect. I'm always on the side of standard connections. Which is one of several reasons I never choose Apple product…

>USB 3.0 is not an order of magnitude inferior to Lightning. USB 3.0 micro plug is order of magnitude inferior to Lightning in arguably the most important part - experience of plugging and unplugging, which you'll do at least twice a day. Until we can survive on wireless power, I'll take reversible Lightning over that ridiculous oversized Micro-B USB 3.0 (even the name is ridiculous) plug any day.

Don't hold your breath, "wireless" power is ridiculously inefficient even at extremely short distances. You might as well just use a good plug.

Re: Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe

#49

Post by nwh » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 12:35 AM UTC

dippyskoodlez wrote: post #46

thirdsight wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the cables shipped with the devices.

I've yet to see a broken lightning connector personally of the 20-30 devices I've seen/used, but I can't say the same of USB. There are sample descrepencies of course, as USB has been around long, but saying the Lightning connector isn't durable is pretty much flat out the opposite opinion of most impressions/experiences, and sounds more like a paid spam-pinion without evidence supporting any specific issues.

The connector is durable but the cable leading up to it isn't. I can of course only speak anecdotally, but I've gone through 4 lightning cables in a year and a half, the kicker being that they're not by any measure cheap (AUD$25). My first one took less than a week to become unusable.

Re: Common charger for all mobile phones on the way in Europe

#50

Post by ris » Mon, Dec 30, 2013, 12:36 AM UTC

zobzu wrote: post #36

danbmil99 wrote: post #22

The question to ask is this: if this law were already in place, would Apple (or any manufacturer) ever innovate something like Lightning or the magnetic mac chargers, given that they then also have to support the common standard, putting them at a significant cost disadvantage? This kind of regulation, while arguably well-meaning, always seems to end up distorting market forces and discouraging innovation.

afaik the law is already in place (apple pays some fees i suppose) and this is a more general law to generalize more chargers, connectors etc. That's why everyone else uses usb ports.

Apple supply a usb micro B adaptor with their products.