Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 80 posts

Re: Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

#41

Post by mikeash »

spindritf wrote: post #3

Presumably, the taxi industry is "heavily regulated" for the benefit of the customer, then shouldn't customers flock to this excellent, regulated service on their own? Why are those artificial and arbitrary limits necessary?

The entire point of rational regulation (not to be confused with insane regulation, which is sadly common) is to avoid market failures such as the tragedy of the commons. By their very nature, those market failures mean that a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one.

That's not to say that these regulations are beneficial or that regulations are needed at all here (I have no idea either way), merely that you can't judge the utility of regulations by letting them compete with deregulated industry and seeing which one wins.

Re: Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

#42

Post by Crito »

sgdesign wrote: post #39
Crito wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either occasional stings to take make an example of people, or using it as a possible additional charge to pile on in situations where there is already an investigation. Most laws do not have vigilant enforcement. For example, (barring illegal searches or likely illegal 'stop and frisk') how do you enforce possession laws?

As a french person, I would be pretty upset to think my taxes are going towards paying people to order Ubers and make sure they take at least 15 minutes to arrive. It almost seems like something out of a Monty Python sketch.

That would be absurd. I expect that in practice this law will not be enforced by itself.

For example: If Uber drivers start illegally parking in common pickup areas waiting for a call, then picking people up within seconds, then this law will probably be the sort of thing that they use to slam the drivers harder.

Re: Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

#43

Post by mikeash »

sgdesign wrote: post #39
Crito wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either occasional stings to take make an example of people, or using it as a possible additional charge to pile on in situations where there is already an investigation. Most laws do not have vigilant enforcement. For example, (barring illegal searches or likely illegal 'stop and frisk') how do you enforce possession laws?

As a french person, I would be pretty upset to think my taxes are going towards paying people to order Ubers and make sure they take at least 15 minutes to arrive. It almost seems like something out of a Monty Python sketch.

For a parallel example in the US, law enforcement here routinely sends underage people to attempt to purchase cigarettes or alcohol, in order to ensure that merchants are following the law around ID checks. This strikes me as similar, for better or for worse. (I'd vote worse, personally.)

Re: Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

#44

Post by RBerenguel »

Crito wrote: post #31
RBerenguel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I see an Uber post related to Europe I wonder if in the US taxis don't need to pay the outrageous license fees (in addition to a whole lot of other things, like freelance income taxes.) It seems very beautiful on the outside, but in the end it seems like the service offered is a way for people to earn money without passing through the same hoops as others do. Seen from afar it seems innovation, but think a…

> Every time I see an Uber post related to Europe I wonder if in the US taxis don't need to pay the outrageous license fees (in addition to a whole lot of other things, like freelance income taxes.) A single NYC taxi medallion goes for millions of dollars: http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/about/average_medallion_pri... Most Taxi drivers have to rent one; which is not cheap. The medallion owners get to sit on their as…

I have read an article or two on NYC medallions, and obviously it's an aberration of a system. In Spain (for instance) you "just" need a license (either purchased second hand or new if there are new ones coming.) I think renting them is prohibited by law.

Re: Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

#45

Post by yankoff »

mikeash wrote: post #41
spindritf wrote: post #3

Presumably, the taxi industry is "heavily regulated" for the benefit of the customer, then shouldn't customers flock to this excellent, regulated service on their own? Why are those artificial and arbitrary limits necessary?

The entire point of rational regulation (not to be confused with insane regulation, which is sadly common) is to avoid market failures such as the tragedy of the commons. By their very nature, those market failures mean that a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one. That's not to say that these regulations are beneficial or that regulations ar…

> a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one.

Can you please give one example?

Re: Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

#46

Post by cycrutchfield »

yankoff wrote: post #45
mikeash wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point of rational regulation (not to be confused with insane regulation, which is sadly common) is to avoid market failures such as the tragedy of the commons. By their very nature, those market failures mean that a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one. That's not to say that these regulations are beneficial or that regulations ar…

> a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one. Can you please give one example?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons#Applicat...

Re: Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

#47

Post by chc »

yankoff wrote: post #45
mikeash wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point of rational regulation (not to be confused with insane regulation, which is sadly common) is to avoid market failures such as the tragedy of the commons. By their very nature, those market failures mean that a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one. That's not to say that these regulations are beneficial or that regulations ar…

> a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one. Can you please give one example?

Probably the clearest example: If one company is required to clean up its waste responsibly and the other one is allowed to do whatever it wants with its waste, the unregulated company will destroy the other one (perhaps literally by burying it under a mountain of waste).

Re: Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

#48

Post by mikeash »

yankoff wrote: post #45
mikeash wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point of rational regulation (not to be confused with insane regulation, which is sadly common) is to avoid market failures such as the tragedy of the commons. By their very nature, those market failures mean that a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one. That's not to say that these regulations are beneficial or that regulations ar…

> a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one. Can you please give one example?

Pollution regulations are an obvious example. Car emission regulations seem to be a pretty good thing, what with the distinct lack of smog in major US cities these days. Yet, if given the choice to opt in or opt out of the regulations, people would generally opt out, as it's cheaper for them personally. The result would be the return of car-related smog.

Re: Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

#49

Post by tjohns »

RBerenguel wrote: post #21
thenmar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a meaningless platitude. The world isn't quite as simple as that.

Every time I see an Uber post related to Europe I wonder if in the US taxis don't need to pay the outrageous license fees (in addition to a whole lot of other things, like freelance income taxes.) It seems very beautiful on the outside, but in the end it seems like the service offered is a way for people to earn money without passing through the same hoops as others do. Seen from afar it seems innovation, but think a…

As mentioned by Crito, the taxi medallion system exists here, and it's a terribly broken system for everyone involved except, perhaps, the Taxi companies. A NYC taxi medallion can cost millions of dollars.

That said... the Uber black car drivers are licensed, only as private limo drivers rather than taxi drivers. They're not allowed to accept street hails. (Before smartphones, this meant having an advance reservation in place.) They're perfectly qualified to drive passengers.

And unlike most regular taxis I've experienced in the SF bay, Uber drivers aren't on their cell phone during the entire drive, so they're arguably safer drivers.

Re: Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

#50

Post by cecilpl »

yankoff wrote: post #45
mikeash wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point of rational regulation (not to be confused with insane regulation, which is sadly common) is to avoid market failures such as the tragedy of the commons. By their very nature, those market failures mean that a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one. That's not to say that these regulations are beneficial or that regulations ar…

> a regulated industry cannot compete with an unregulated one, but people are still better off with the regulated one. Can you please give one example?

Leaded gasoline. Using it allows you to increase the compression of your engine, which improves fuel economy.

The total cost of lead in the environment by far outweighs the economic benefits, which is why it's banned, yet for each individual person it makes economic sense to use leaded gasoline if you can.

Post reply on HN