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Fedora 20 released

docs.fedoraproject.org

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Re: Fedora 20 released

#41

Post by meddlepal »

dschiptsov wrote: post #40
veeti wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the fuck are you going on about? WildFly is now included as an _available package for install in the repositories_. This is why it is in the release notes. This is like complaining that any disto is "bloatware" because their repositories include software that you happen to dislike and think is "bloat". $distro is bloated because KDE/GNOME/whatever is an option, right? Get a grip.

Please, let's not discuss Java EE.)

I don't know what experience you have with modern Java EE, but it's incredibly modular these days and is no more than a collection of components that can operate independent of each other.

Re: Fedora 20 released

#42

Post by Sanddancer »

hdevalence wrote: post #33
andor wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a direct replacement. Journald does stuff that syslog can't do, but it doesn't reimplement everything. Instead, you can pipe to syslog if you want syslog features. - Journald logs the whole boot process - Journald can make sure that an item really came from some process. It also tries to seal the journal so that it can't be tempered with. - It's built into the other systemd tools. For example, when you notic…

Note that the second point is quite important -- it provides a rolling hash of the journal contents that you can send to another machine, so that in the event of a break-in, you can detect any tampering with the syslogs. As I recall, this was inspired by the break-in to the kernel.org servers, where the attacker tampered with the log files. That would be impossible with journald.

There are syslog daemons that can provide cryptographic security as well. Alternatively, they can also log directly to an SQL database, use SSL client certificates, etc. Modern syslog daemons are quite powerful.

Re: Fedora 20 released

#43

Post by adrianlmm »

aeroevan wrote: post #28
kolme wrote: post #14

Also note, this is the first Distro (that I know of) that is resolution-independent out of the box -- thanks to Gnome 3.10. Retina and retina-like users rejoice!

OpenSUSE 13.1 released with GNOME 3.10 already :P

OpenSUSE renders the fonts horrible, I don't know why is that.

Re: Fedora 20 released

#44

Post by yogo »

dschiptsov wrote: post #37

''syslog is no longer included in default installations. journald logging serves most use cases as well as, or better than, syslogd.'' I think it has lots in common with this: "Fedora 20 includes the WildFly 8 Application Server, formerly known as the JBoss Application Server, a very popular Java EE platform. WildFly is a very fast, modular and lightweight server." keep producing more and more bloatware, without any…

I had similar sentiments when Arch made the move to systemd but I think I've come to like it. Things seem to be a lot more stable than with initscripts.

Re: Fedora 20 released

#45

Post by leokun »

jops wrote: post #7

With Gnome 3.10. Nice. Even nicer with the Phosphene theme: http://hdni.github.io/rice/assets/phosphene_preview.png - https://github.com/hdni/Phosphene

The dialogs definitely look nicer than your standard Gnome dialogs.

Re: Fedora 20 released

#46

Post by brokenparser »

rwmj wrote: post #27
brokenparser wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice, but can you "yum install upstart"?

No. Why would you want to? Upstart is inferior to systemd in every way and if Fedora supported both then it would have to test every package that contained a daemon twice.

Because upstart is easy and systemd is difficult.

Re: Fedora 20 released

#47

Post by dschiptsov »

yogo wrote: post #44
dschiptsov wrote: post #37

''syslog is no longer included in default installations. journald logging serves most use cases as well as, or better than, syslogd.'' I think it has lots in common with this: "Fedora 20 includes the WildFly 8 Application Server, formerly known as the JBoss Application Server, a very popular Java EE platform. WildFly is a very fast, modular and lightweight server." keep producing more and more bloatware, without any…

I had similar sentiments when Arch made the move to systemd but I think I've come to like it. Things seem to be a lot more stable than with initscripts.

For me it looks like a fix for what wasn't broken.

I think that the only reason to re-write something that is good-enough is to make it even simpler, more clear and, in some rare situations, more general (but what could be more general than text files and pipes?)

Imagines someone in physics would say "this equation is not clever-enough, it lacks linear algebra, let's rewrite it using vector notation". Guys in physics are using vectors because it is the most convenient way to represent some aspects of reality, not because it is clever or popular. Similarly, the mantra should be "simplify" (and generalize).

Anyway, thank god, they didn't bring some nice, little "real-time, non-blocking log collector" written in a nice, object-oriented, modular NodeJS with some nice little MongoDB-powered clustered storage.

Re: Fedora 20 released

#48

Post by yapcguy »

gary4gar wrote: post #36

Ruby Devs, Take note, Fedora 20 has ruby 2 & rails 4 available. to get started with rails, all you need to do is: yum install rubygem-rails and Bam, it will install latest ruby, rails & other dependencies. That's not all, they have more than 2thousand ruby related packages(all recent versions). Fedora seems to have one of best ruby support. Way to go! https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/s/ruby

How does one decide whether to install from a package repository, or directly via gems?

What's the typical time lag before a package get updated after a gem does?

Re: Fedora 20 released

#49

Post by pekk »

Sanddancer wrote: post #6

Seeing the removal of syslogd, getting more than a bit grumpy here at the continuing direction Redhat is dragging the Linux world. Journald may serve the basic user well, it can't do half the stuff a good syslogd configuration can do; it can't pipe messages to other processes, it can't send messages to remote servers, it can't send messages to multiple places. If redhat had put in services to let journald do the thin…

It isn't what you want, but that certainly doesn't make it proprietary!

Re: Fedora 20 released

#50

Post by dignan »

Sanddancer wrote: post #35
CraigJPerry wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the fragmentation claim stands up to scrutiny. It's so far been adopted by redhat, suse, arch, coreos and with some consideration by debian. The only big name not thinking about it is Ubuntu. I don't think that many of the journald drivers could have been solved by better syslogd configuration, for example journald cryptographically signs each log entry. Even if you get root on my box, you can't edit an…

Think bigger than Linux. Think those with freebsd boxes, netbsd boxes, solaris boxes, etc. They're all very much relevant, but left out in the cold by deliberate decisions of the systemd folks to eschew compatibility. Functionality-wise, journald has no way of acting on the messages it receives. With syslogd, it's fairly trivial to write a script that will send a nagios alert every time a service is restarted, for ex…

systemd itself provides the functionality to run commands at points during the lifecycle of a service[1]. As for the people in mixed environments, you can forward journald to syslog [2].

[1] http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.serv... [2] http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/journald.con...

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